Dulwich village crash

[rollflick]

Saw this Saturday morning, hope no one was hurt. 

At least the pillar on the roundabout escaped unscathed, unlike the one in West Norwood featured in another post.

[Sue]

😮😮😮

[march46]

A deeply worrying sight. I really hope no one was hurt. 

[DulvilleRes]

This one from April this year - similarly, I hope no one was too badly hurt

 

...... and this one from August this year. This was a driver attempting to evade Police. 

 

 

[march46]

Thanks for the reminder of those similarly serious collisions @DulvilleRes. 
 

It’s time for road safety to become a real priority for local police. There’s plenty of discussion about “community safety”, but reckless and dangerous driving seems to go largely unchecked.

Where are the traffic officers stopping speeding, impaired, or drug-affected drivers? Why isn’t there consistent enforcement against obscured or fake number plates, or drivers using mobile phones?

It’s also concerning that at least one recent crash reportedly involved a police pursuit and drug search. It’s not hard to see the link between high-risk driving and wider criminal behaviour. Strong, visible traffic enforcement isn’t just about road safety - it’s about community safety in the broadest sense.

[Sue]

We don't (I presume, I might be wrong) know the cause of the latest crash.

It's easy to jump to conclusions.

The driver could have had a medical emergency.

Edited October 26 by Sue

[Penguin68]

A number of recent crashes appear to have happened late at night or in the early morning. It is more likely than at other times that these may be stolen cars or ones being used for crime. These are not, really, road safety issues, at least in the sense that it's all about good driving. And need different remedies. 

[malumbu]

That's a bit of an assumption.  Some will no doubt not be criminals escaping the police, but just people who are bad drivers.

[Sue]

Well unless we know the cause of each crash we can't really know if there is anything which could have been done to prevent it?

[Glemham]

Might it also be a result of drivers racing their cars as happens in other areas of London?

[malumbu]

You mean going over the speed limit?  That's fairly common.

[HeadNun]

On 26/10/2025 at 09:36, march46 said:

Thanks for the reminder of those similarly serious collisions @DulvilleRes. 
 

It’s time for road safety to become a real priority for local police. There’s plenty of discussion about “community safety”, but reckless and dangerous driving seems to go largely unchecked.

Where are the traffic officers stopping speeding, impaired, or drug-affected drivers? Why isn’t there consistent enforcement against obscured or fake number plates, or drivers using mobile phones?

 

This is what Roads Policing does and they are pretty pro-active. Units are out all the time, responding to ANPR hits, which alert them to stolen vehicles and cars with cloned plates. As soon as a camera on the vast network is activated, they hunt for the target. These daily patrols are co-ordinated and take priority over driving around trying to spot general bad driving because a lot of their targets are OCGs, county lines runners, car thieves etc and mostly operating on motorways.

If police just drove around hoping to chance upon someone on a mobile phone, their hit rate would be pretty low and we'd all be complaining about wasting resources. Obviously if they do chance upon erratic driving, they'll pursue, but they can't be everywhere all of the time. 

On 26/10/2025 at 09:36, march46 said:

It’s also concerning that at least one recent crash reportedly involved a police pursuit and drug search. It’s not hard to see the link between high-risk driving and wider criminal behaviour. Strong, visible traffic enforcement isn’t just about road safety - it’s about community safety in the broadest sense.

It's not nice but, if a drunk or drug driver, or any other type of criminal, is failing to stop then it will trigger a high speed pursuit. People with something to hide won't slow down when they see a cop car, they'll hit the gas, and that's what compromises community safety. The police don't want a pursuit and will frequently stand down and let the target vehicle out of their sight if they feel public safety is being compromised. 

[first mate]

Ťhe problem is that if the culprits are criminals or doing other crazy stuff, they may well be well equipped and used to evading any type of enforcement measures. Let's be honest, speed limits, cameras etc.. are not really going to impact this type of behaviour. 

[malumbu]

Enforcing speed limits works for most drivers, and if there are serial evaders they will be caught, eventually.

Looking back to the earlier photos, someone driving at 30 mph into a solid object will do 50% more damage to the vehicle  as someone driving at 20mph.

[DulvilleRes]

it isn't an area of my expertise, but logic would dictate that you are most likely doing a lot more than 20 mph to end up on your roof.

The thing that strikes me about both pictures I posted is that it is lucky there were no pedestrians around when either crashed - in the case of the car on its roof, someone could have been walking up the grass verge, and for the white car someone could have been on that traffic island. It does put debate around speed limits in context. 

[first mate]

2 hours ago, malumbu said:

Enforcing speed limits works for most drivers, and if there are serial evaders they will be caught, eventually.

Looking back to the earlier photos, someone driving at 30 mph into a solid object will do 50% more damage to the vehicle  as someone driving at 20mph.

Yes, but being caught eventually is not the same argument as 20mph will deter them in the first place, it won't. Those addicted to risk, with zero social conscience, do not tend to adhere to any sort of rules (we only have to look at ol' orange rump across the pond). On that basis, you then have to look at what else is gained and by who- yes, mitigation of damage caused by genuine accidents by normally careful drivers but also more revenue in fines garnered by the council. Most if not all the big car crashes or incidents cited on here point to criminal behaviour that will not be changed by 20mph.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

On 26/10/2025 at 11:04, Penguin68 said:

A number of recent crashes appear to have happened late at night or in the early morning... These are not, really, road safety issues

🤣🤣🤣

"Crashes aren't road safety issues because they happen at night when I'm tucked up in bed".

West Norwood this morning. Dangerous driver mounts the pavement, gets impaled on a bell bollard that protects the crossing, leaves vehicle unattended.

Awaiting suggestion that this was caused by a medical emergency or swerving to avoid a nun carrying early morning milk to the orphanage home or something...

[Penguin68]

You know very well that I was suggesting that the drivers at that time were or may have been  conducting criminal enterprises when these incidents occurred or were joy riding. In either case these weren't about poor drivers or negligent drivers but criminal drivers where normal issues of safe and careful driving were not over-ridden by careless mistakes, but were a consequence of criminality. Or possibly of inebriation. We believe that at least one such incident was caused by a driver in a stolen car, who then ran off. These are very different in nature from issues of simple poor driving. And would require different remedies. 

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

1 hour ago, Penguin68 said:

In either case these weren't about poor drivers or negligent drivers but criminal drivers where normal issues of safe and careful driving were not over-ridden by careless mistakes, but were a consequence of criminality. 

I see we've gone from "don't make assumptions about why people wrapped their car around a lamppost" to "we can intuit a forensic offender profile from a photo of a crashed car". 🤣

[first mate]

Or we just assume that they were driving without 'due care and attention'- either way, without knowing what actually happened any view is speculative and based on assumption.

[CPR Dave]

How many people were injured in each of these accidents?