Wandsworth issuing PCNs to "speeding" cyclists on Tooting Bec Common

[Earl Aelfheah]

Clearly people should cycle carefully in parks. Dogs shouldn’t be out of control  and off the lead either ideally (often they are). A bit of courtesy and care is probably what’s called for rather than unenforceable laws. Never heard of this 5mph limit.

[Rockets]

There is a 5mph limit on the outer perimeter of the park. The outer perimeter is designated a shared use route and as such Southwark have set the speed limit for all vehicles at 5mph on it. It is the same as in Tooting Bec, that has a shared use route with the speed limit set at 12mph - which is where the council were issuing PCNs to cyclists. Whether Southwark would ever police the 5mph limit is another question.

Dogs can be off the lead on the outer perimeter and are called out as part of the shared use group. They only have to be on the lead within the inner sections of the park. I suspect this is one of the reasons the speed limit is set at 5mph by the council.

[Sue]

On 23/12/2025 at 14:41, Earl Aelfheah said:

Clearly people should cycle carefully in parks. Dogs shouldn’t be out of control  and off the lead either ideally (often they are).

In Peckham Rye Park yesterday morning (Christmas Day) there were loads of dogs. We only saw one on a lead 🙄

[Rockets]

What are the rules in relation to dogs on leads on Peckham Rye? Within Dulwich Park they are allowed off the lead around the outer perimeter, just have to be on the lead in the central area.

[exdulwicher]

1 hour ago, Rockets said:

What are the rules in relation to dogs on leads on Peckham Rye? 

They can't run faster than 5mph...?

[Rockets]

That only applies to all vehicles in Dulwich Park @exdulwicher. Not sure what the speed limit is for Peckham Rye.

This thread has helped establish two things: 1) there is a speed limit of 5mph in Dulwich Park (and it applies to bikes) and 2) dogs do not have to be on a lead in many parts of Dulwich Park.

It seems some folks need to read up on the rules!

[Spartacus]

Is there a speed limit for dogs off leads cycling through the park ? 

[Sue]

18 hours ago, Rockets said:

What are the rules in relation to dogs on leads on Peckham Rye? Within Dulwich Park they are allowed off the lead around the outer perimeter, just have to be on the lead in the central area.

Unless I have misunderstood the notice at the park  entrance nearest to Barry Road, dogs In Peckham Rye Park have to be on leads at all times EXCEPT in certain areas, which are clearly signposted.

That's in the park, not on the grass of the  Rye itself.

I don't have a dog, so I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[exdulwicher]

18 hours ago, Rockets said:

This thread has helped establish two things: 1) there is a speed limit of 5mph in Dulwich Park (and it applies to bikes) and 2) dogs do not have to be on a lead in many parts of Dulwich Park.

It hasn't established that at all. You've provided no actual link to any official sources, you've just stated your belief.

And you didn't answer the question as to what you'd do if Southwark started issuing PCNs for drivers exceeding this 5mph, just tried to turn it around and avoid it. 

[first mate]

Within Peckam Rye Park, it is my understanding that dogs are ideally kept on lead on paved areas (unless obedient), they must be on lead around the pond and inside the Japanese and American Gardens, and they are not allowed at all in the Arboretum, which is fenced off.

Dogs are allowed off lead on any of the playing fields and within the wooded area. Dogs do need areas in which they can run free. Clearly if there is a football game or similar then it is sensible to keep your dog on a lead (but not a requirement). However, unless your dog is very obedient, you'll probably put them on a lead rather than face irate football players.

In any park it is probably wise and safer to have your dog on a shorter lead on any paved areas, likely to be used by cyclists and even cars- unless you have a dog that will walk to heel no matter what is going on. But, in my view, this should not give cyclists permission to use paved areas as race tracks- it may not be law but it is sensible and more fair to other park users, most of which are likely to be pedestrians.

Edited December 28, 2025 by first mate

[exdulwicher]

I'm going to set up a campaign advising people to put their dogs back on leads.

I'll call it Re-leash The Hounds.

[Rockets]

1 hour ago, exdulwicher said:

It hasn't established that at all. You've provided no actual link to any official sources, you've just stated your belief.

But as Southwark have set a speed limit for all vehicles of 5mph on a shared use route off the public highway then that is the speed limit that applies to all vehicles is it not?

 

1 hour ago, exdulwicher said:

And you didn't answer the question as to what you'd do if Southwark started issuing PCNs for drivers exceeding this 5mph, just tried to turn it around and avoid it. 

Well if someone was driving at faster than 5mph on the shared use route then clearly Southwark could issue a PCN...but then they could issue a PCN for cyclists too couldn't they? 

This is basically the same instance highlighted in the original post...in this situation a speed limit on a shared use route off the public highway applies to all vehicles does it not?

21 hours ago, exdulwicher said:

They can't run faster than 5mph...?

Are they are vehicle...this vehicle issue appears to be your argument's Achiiles Heal!

13 minutes ago, exdulwicher said:

I'm going to set up a campaign advising people to put their dogs back on leads.

I'll call it Re-leash The Hounds.

Only in the areas where it is required I presume - I know how you and many of your cohort on here are so keen on the application of rules and regulations to the letter (for cars)! 😉

[exdulwicher]

Clearly you missed the irony and play on words with Re-leash the Hounds...

Also "me and my cohort"?! I have a cohort? Wow. Can anyone who is in my cohort raise their hand? It's just that I didn't know I had a cohort and I should probably do something about it. Some kind of induction day for starters.. Do I need to do anything else?

I can supply some left over mince pies. 

[first mate]

1 hour ago, exdulwicher said:

I'm going to set up a campaign advising people to put their dogs back on leads.

I'll call it Re-leash The Hounds.

Haha, very droll.

Or, you could simply ask all park users on paved areas to be mindful of other users- dogs should be kept on lead and not allowed to career around paved areas, toddlers and young children carefully supervised,  and cyclists or other wheelers, observe park speed limits and always give way to pedestrians. 

Edited December 28, 2025 by first mate

[malumbu]

Long or short leads for children?

Your second paragraph summarises how we should behave. Not really sure why this turned into a longish thread.  Funnily enough young cyclists are most likely to get in my way in Dulwich Park.  Not that this bothers me in the least.  

[first mate]

13 hours ago, malumbu said:

Long or short leads for children?

You seem to be advocating this, so you tell us? If you think children on foot should be kept on a lead, then what about children on bikes, scooting or wheeling?

[malumbu]

Just a bit of humour in the continued posting by some that cyclists are public enemy number 1. Tiresome.

If you go back to my short post I've already acknowledged kids on bikes (and as you say other two wheels) all over the place. And that it doesn't bother me.  Rather them doing that than running around the Horniman museum whilst mum or dad is looking at their socials.

And go back to my post and you've put this thread to bed as far as I am concerned.

[first mate]

42 minutes ago, malumbu said:

If you go back to my short post I've already acknowledged kids on bikes (and as you say other two wheels) all over the place. And that it doesn't bother me

On that basis alone, we can probably also agree that cycling fast through a park, when there are many other park users around (children on two wheels, pedestrians, dog walkers), is not a good idea. Adhering to 5mph seems sensible enough. I always cycle at snail's pace through local parks for that reason. As I have also mentioned, Lime bike users seem among the worst for speeding. Perhaps it is very difficult to cycle very slowly on powered bicycles?

Edited December 30, 2025 by first mate

[exdulwicher]

5 hours ago, first mate said:

As I have also mentioned, Lime bike users seem among the worst for speeding. Perhaps it is very difficult to cycle very slowly on powered bicycles?

4-5mph is about the speed that the motor will cut in and give you a boost.

However Dulwich Park is geofenced. If you try and use a Lime bike or scooter in it, it won't give full power and I think it cuts out entirely if you try and ride them in the centre of the park rather than just around the edge. I've not tried it but maybe I should give it a go in the name of research...

There is of course the final, rather significant, point which is that speed limits do not apply to pedal cycles...

[first mate]

48 minutes ago, exdulwicher said:

There is of course the final, rather significant, point which is that speed limits do not apply to pedal cycles...

But if the notion of inconsiderate cycling becomes more of a thing perhaps cyclists, especially e-bike and time triallers, will take it upon themselves to voluntarily slow right down abd even dismount in shared use spaces. 

Lime bike riders I have seen in the local parks and today zooming across the pedestrianised part of Dulwich Sq, mostly seem to go very fast- so not sure how the geofencing works.

[malumbu]

I've never seen anyone time trailing around here.  Chap I knew did it in the 00s and they would use main roads out of London early in the morning.  Urban environments are not suitable as far as I am aware.

[Earl Aelfheah]

A critique of the Tooting story; https://road.cc/content/blog/new-year-same-old-anti-cycling-raigebait-317501 

“The Daily Mail has found that some cyclists are exceeding an unenforceable speed limit by as much as a light jog. A cyclist has already shown that this is unenforceable when, as the only person to have received a fine, it was almost instantly rescinded by Wandsworth Council. While the Daily Mail was at the park for two hours with a speed gun, we recorded only 20 cyclists breaking the limit out of the hundreds we saw, with the fastest going 19mph - a full 1mph lower than the lowest speed limit on a public road.”

[Spartacus]

Let's take the whole paragraph 

"So first off, the most flagrant example of breaking the limit they could find is 7mph over the 12mph limit. For posterity, 7mph is the same speed as a light jog. It’s the equivalent of somebody doing roughly 45 in a 30 while driving; which would indeed be speeding and absolutely should never be condoned, but that's the very worst example they could find" 

So yes, a light jog added to the equivalent of running (12 run + 7 jog) and as said 50% over the limit (equivalent to 45 in.a 30 zone or 30 in a 20 zone or 105 in a 70 zone)  so by the authors logic its okay to do 50% more than the speed limit on a bike...  surly one rule applies to all! 

Road.cc is a very pro.cycling site so it is the equivalent of the daily mail click bait in my opinion and should be taken with a pinch of salt to balance their views. 

[Earl Aelfheah]

Read the whole article by all means. The fact that they've posed most of the headlines as questions tells you a lot. No one actually fined (one fine was issued and quickly rescinded). Of perhaps hundreds of cyclists, 20 were clocked over the 'speed limit', but several of those were probably within the 2mph margin of error. It sounds like absolute rage bait nonsense on the whole. 

27 minutes ago, Spartacus said:

so by the authors logic its okay to do 50% more than the speed limit on a bike

They literally say the opposite.

[Spartacus]

Interesting assumption by the Author about cyclust numbers 

Quote "so there were more than likely hundreds of cyclists coming through at this time. " 

There may well be, but as the number of cyclists was not recorded by either journalist then it is an assumption and shouldn't be quoted. Another speculation was how many cyclists over the limit were with a 2mph margin for error, again not actually observed bt the road.cc journalist so pure assumption. 

FYI I did read both articles and both are click bait to be read with scepticism.