Wandsworth issuing PCNs to "speeding" cyclists on Tooting Bec Common

[Rockets]

No what is nonsense is how vexed some people are getting arguing that rules to protect more vulnerable users somehow don't apply to them. And the nonsense that cyclists cannot cycle slowly is beyond reproach and stated by those who probably don't cycle much, if, at all

2 minutes ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

5 minutes ago, Rockets said:

The shared-use route is for the exclusive use of pedestrians

It is not. This is absolute nonsense. 

Why did you crop out the rest of my sentence - you doing some selective editing again? I said "The shared-use route is for the exclusive use of pedestrians (many with playing children), dogs (off the lead) and cyclists but pedestrians and dogs have priority. No other vehicles are allowed on the shared-use route."

Which is exactly what the blue sign is telling you.

[exdulwicher]

5 minutes ago, Rockets said:

But @exdulwicher you are wrong. It does apply to cyclists

You have still provided no evidence to demonstrate this.

I know how much you love evidence. You're forever asking for it. Well now it's your turn.

[Earl Aelfheah]

5 minutes ago, Rockets said:

Why did you crop out the rest of my sentence - you doing some selective editing again? I said "The shared-use route is for the exclusive use of pedestrians (many with playing children), dogs (off the lead) and cyclists but pedestrians and dogs have priority. No other vehicles are allowed on the shared-use route."

This isn't true. Permit holders are allowed to drive in the park, as are contractors and park staff. There is a notice just in front of the one you have posted a photo of by the rising arm barriers. 

Edited yesterday at 10:16 by Earl Aelfheah

[first mate]

@ Earl 

1. You have completely misrepresented Rockets by only quoting half of his sentence. I suspect you scan read, thought you had a point and posted before properly reading or thinking.

2. I did not say I had a problem with people cycling in the park per se, but was simply pointing out a possibly problematic lack of joined up thinking where on the one hand the Council is urging more cyclists ( many on Lime bikes) to use parks as through routes ( to increase cycling safety) on the other it has designated those same park areas as shared use spaces where cyclists must give way to pedestrians. What is your understanding of how cyclists give way when there are lots of other users in the same space- how does that work in reality? 

3.  You did not comment on the (presumably) council licensed bike hire business that operates inside Dulwich Park that advises cyclists must give way to pedestrians and not exceed speed limits. Do you think this specialist bike business, operating with the council's blessing does not know what it is talking about?

[Earl Aelfheah]

13 minutes ago, first mate said:

1. You have completely misrepresented Rockets by only quoting half of his sentence. I suspect you scan read, thought you had a point and posted before properly reading or thinking.

This is fair - I posted before property reading it so apologise for the truncation. But even with the full quote above, what Rocks has said is still not true. Permit holders are allowed to drive in the park, as are contractors and park staff - not just pedestrians, dogs and cyclists. There are rising arm barriers and notice to car users just in front of the one that Rocks has shared a picture of. 

13 minutes ago, first mate said:

2. I did not say I had a problem with people cycling in the park per se, but was simply pointing out a possibly problematic lack of joined up thinking where on the one hand the Council is urging more cyclists ( many on Lime bikes) to use parks as through routes ( to increase cycling safety) on the other it has designated those same park areas as shared use spaces where cyclists must give way to pedestrians.

You said that there were inherent issues with Southwark encouraging cyclists to use the park what are they? The fact that cyclist must give way to pedestrians in the park? Cyclist must always give way to pedestrians, whether in a park or on a road, so that is irrelevant.

I have no problem at all with Southwark encouraging people to use their bicycles in a park and it appears you do, for reasons I simply do not understand.

Edited yesterday at 10:34 by Earl Aelfheah

[Rockets]

30 minutes ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

This isn't true. Permit holders are allowed to drive in the park, as are contractors and park staff. There is a notice just in front of the one you have posted a photo of by the rising arm barriers. 

Not according to the signage. If you know your Highway Code you know what that sign means.

Let's look at the evidence:

• Nationally recognised signage that conforms to the Highway Code: the speed limit applies to cyclists
• The Friends of Dulwich Park: the speed limit applies to cyclists
• Cycle rental operator in Dulwich Park: the speed limit applies to cyclists
• The main board at the entrance of Dulwich Park at the Village end stats that the park is a "5mph area" which is how authorities communicate that there is a private speed limit enforced by them.

Meanwhile.....

• Online cycle-lobbyists on local forum: the speed limit does not apply to cyclists

 

17 minutes ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

This is fair - I posted before property reading it so apologise for the truncation.

Thank you - it was a naughty truncation that completely changed the context of what I said.

18 minutes ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

But even with the full quote above, what Rocks has said is still not true.

But it is @Earl Aelfheah. Look up what those signs mean in the Highway Code and what I have said is exactly what the signs are communicating per the Highway Code - it is a shared-use route for the exclusive use of those groups with the priorities set per the signage. That cannot be argued with.

 

 

[exdulwicher]

45 minutes ago, Rockets said:

And the nonsense that cyclists cannot cycle slowly is beyond reproach and stated by those who probably don't cycle much, if, at all

Have you ever watched a beginner ride? Or even someone with less confidence, the very type of person who would go to a traffic-free area like Dulwich Park and potter around? 

5mph is the sort of speed where there is considerably less balance to assist. People start getting worried, the front wheel begins flailing left and right as they try to keep their balance, they're not looking where they are going, they start trying to put a foot down which unbalances them further...

On the other hand get them up to 10mph and the bike starts balancing, starts behaving as a bike and they can concentrate on looking where they're going. Any parent will have seen this with their kids learning to ride. 

And the lack of a speed limit never permits carte blanche behaviour anyway. It's not like people are tearing around that park at 25mph, it's simply not the environment for anything like that. 

[Spartacus]

For funks sake 

Why is everyone arguing and, as requested to Earl, no one contacting [email protected] to actually ask the ruddy question of who the 5mph sign applies to ? 

After all that would solve this silly rabbit hole discussion.

Or do you all just love the sound of your own posts so much and have funk all else to do all day ? 

Edited yesterday at 11:57 by Spartacus

[Rockets]

34 minutes ago, exdulwicher said:

On the other hand get them up to 10mph and the bike starts balancing, starts behaving as a bike and they can concentrate on looking where they're going. Any parent will have seen this with their kids learning to ride. 

Which probably explains whey the speed limit for bikes on the shared-use route in front of Dulwich College is 10mph. Maybe you should all lobby to get the speed limit in Dulwich Park raised to 10mph for bikes.

[Earl Aelfheah]

2 hours ago, Rockets said:

3 hours ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

This isn't true. Permit holders are allowed to drive in the park, as are contractors and park staff. There is a notice just in front of the one you have posted a photo of by the rising arm barriers. 

Not according to the signage. If you know your Highway Code you know what that sign means.

You're seriously claiming that there are no vehicles that drive in the park? No permit holders, contractor or park staff? And so there is no speed limit applicable to motor cars? 

 

Edited yesterday at 13:57 by Earl Aelfheah

[ianr]

6 hours ago, Rockets said:

the speed limit for bikes on the shared-use route in front of Dulwich College is 10mph.

You've mentioned this several times.  Is it the one inside the College grounds, as referred to, for example, in para. 40 of https://dulwichevents.com/terms-and-conditions/  (for their clients)

"Motor cars or other vehicles are to observe the 10 mph speed limit in the College grounds"or one on the public highway?

Edited yesterday at 18:38 by ianr
dead space removed

[Rockets]

No it is the pavement in front of the College running up to Huntslip from the A205.

2 hours ago, Earl Aelfheah said:

You're seriously claiming that there are no vehicles that drive in the park? No permit holders, contractor or park staff? And so there is no speed limit applicable to motor cars? 

No, again you seem to be trying to put words into my mouth - I have not said that at any point.