School gates still apply over Xmas - update actually they dont - see post below

[sandyman]

Just a warning that school gates in Southwark still apply in holidays, even bank holidays like Boxing Day if they fall on weekdays. Unlike in Lewisham where i saw this school gate sign temporarily blanked out tonight. (Apols for pic quality - taken by passenger while moving). Why can't Southwark also suspend them? 

Edited December 26, 2025 by sandyman

[beansprout]

Plenty of places to park in ED… what’s the problem? 

[Nigello]

It’s mean spirited. Also, if no buses on Xmas Day, why not allow other vehicles to use the bus lanes then? It would prevent unnecessary idling and jams, which is a laudable aim and one which the authorities spend a lot of time and effort pursuing. 

[beansprout]

Oh was on about bus lanes.. now I understand

[Sue]

8 hours ago, beansprout said:

Plenty of places to park in ED… what’s the problem? 

Isn't the problem not being allowed to drive down certain roads at all at certain times, even on bank holidays?

And potentially getting fined if you do, let alone park?

 

[march46]

School Street restrictions in Southwark only apply during term time. 
 

https://www.southwark.gov.uk/parking-streets-and-transport/parking/parking-permits/school-streets

[sandyman]

2 hours ago, march46 said:

School Street restrictions in Southwark only apply during term time. 
 

https://www.southwark.gov.uk/parking-streets-and-transport/parking/parking-permits/school-streets

Thanks for posting this - i've always avoided school streets throughout the year. I hadnt noticed any signs saying they arent 'active' during hols - maybe because i avoid them!  

[malumbu]

Good thing that the roads are so quiet over the school holiday, particularly at this time of the year.  And enjoyed the panto references!

[Moovart]

But isn't it the case that the Townley road restriction is not a school gate so that restriction is active all the time as far as I understand.

[Penguin68]

Yes, by ensuring that every restricted road is restricted in a slightly different way, as regards times and days (and vehicle types) , wth complex and small type notices over many lines placed high up and preferably behind branches you have an open season on revenue generation even from those who are resident and 'local'. Hence the phenomenal revenues from what should be informed  'local' traffic. My wife drove, in error, into a restricted Dulwich road, based on time-of-day, immediately reversed/ 3 point turned out of it and has now received two fines - the photos (and offences) less than 2 minutes apart, showing her car in a restricted zone travelling in two directions - as it would do as she was retracing her in-error steps. But that's two offences, apparently! She did appeal, but, weeks later, the 'jury' is still out. 

Edited to add that the appeal was refused, apparently going out of a forbidden road having entered it (i.e. travelling both ways) is a second offence. They're desparate for money and/or really hate their constituents. 

Edited January 11 by Penguin68

[sandyman]

5 hours ago, Moovart said:

But isn't it the case that the Townley road restriction is not a school gate so that restriction is active all the time as far as I understand.

Its a bus gate rather than a school gate and not on the school gate list on council website - even though the timings, morning & afternoon- clearly suggest its there to limit traffic during travel to/from schools. Im guessing it doesnt get suspended during hols. 

[Rockets]

It doesn't get suspended. @Penguin68 is right, Southwark do like to leave people guessing - probsbly good for revenue generation. In neighbouring Bromley their school streets signs clearly say term-time only and I am surprised Southwark don't have to call it out.

[Nigello]

I wrote to the department to ask why Southwark doesn’t say fines won’t be levied during school holidays and received this back:

A School Street operates during school term time only and only during the signed drop-off and pick-up times, typically Monday to Friday. Outside of these hours, including during school holidays, the restrictions do not apply.

 

The on-street signs currently in place are the prescribed signs permitted under traffic regulations and set out the days and times of operation in line with the Traffic Management Order. These are the signs the Council is legally able to install on the public highway.

 

i replied to ask if any council putting a notice about school holidays on the signs was therefore breaking the law and, if not, whether Southwark would consider amending signs as a courtesy to drivers. I am yet to receive a reply. 
 

Also, does anyone know whether the “legal” bit is correct? Perhaps there is an exemption for friendly, helpful amendments?! 

 

[sandyman]

I took the picture of the blanked out sign in walthamstow above (or my passenger did). Lewisham does the same (but i didnt have passenger to take picture when i drove past one in December). 
 

So, as you suggest, @Nigello why cant southwark do the same? I wonder what Lambeth does. 

Edited January 9 by sandyman

[Nigello]

I’m going to ask my MP! I received no reply to my question about whether Southwark could add a note about school holidays, as other councils have done. 

[sandyman]

@Nigello You could also maybe ask them why the Townley Road bus gate isnt suspended during holidays. Although it is called a bus gate its function is clearly also to reduce traffic during school travel hours. (The only buses that travel down that road are school buses)

Edited January 10 by sandyman

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

7 hours ago, Nigello said:

I’m going to ask my MP! 

Why? It's a local government matter, not a national government matter. The accountable elected official is your councillor and the responsible workers are the council employees. 

[ed_pete]

Southwark's list of School Gates is here:
 

https://www.southwark.gov.uk/parking-streets-and-transport/parking/parking-permits/school-streets/current-school-streets

This section of the website says that they only apply in Term Time and gives a link to the Term Dates here:

https://services.southwark.gov.uk/schools-and-education/school-term-and-holiday-dates

The local anomaly is that two of the streets are for JAGS and Alleyns but these schools have longer holidays and different term dates !

 

[sandyman]

52 minutes ago, ed_pete said:

Southwark's list of School Gates is here:
 

https://www.southwark.gov.uk/parking-streets-and-transport/parking/parking-permits/school-streets/current-school-streets

This section of the website says that they only apply in Term Time and gives a link to the Term Dates here:

https://services.southwark.gov.uk/schools-and-education/school-term-and-holiday-dates

The local anomaly is that two of the streets are for JAGS and Alleyns but these schools have longer holidays and different term dates !

 

So anyone driving around 20 metres from Townley into Greendale at, say, 4pm on s weekday in term time would pick up two PCNs!

so pay attention to those signs. 

[ianr]

On 10/01/2026 at 09:41, Nigello said:

I’m going to ask my MP! I received no reply to my question about whether Southwark could add a note about school holidays, as other councils have done. 

Can I have a few of those councils please.

[Rockets]

@ianr are you asking for the councils that do add a note on the school holidays. Bromley makes it clear on theirs that they are only in operation during term-time.

[ianr]

Yes please.  I'd like some of the councils that mention school holidays in the signs, and any of the schools in Bromley that do so.

[fishboy]

It's always worth challenging these PCNs as often the councils fail to adhere to legal requirements. They always reject the initial appeal / representation, it's only after that point that things get interesting!

Have a look at the many cases on the Free Traffic Legal Advice forum - https://www.ftla.uk/index.php 

You'll see that most that go further, the councils end up cancelling rather than go to tribunal, mainly because they haven't followed correct procedure.

I had one with Lewisham which I felt was unfair (unfamiliar area, signs were literally 15 feet in the air & hence not visible from a car seat!). Raised a thread, got lots of advice, one member actively helped with my appeal, Lewisham cancelled two weeks before the hearing. They had repeatedly got deadline dates & fine amounts wrong, and were using 'threatening' language to demand payments, all of which were in breach of regulations and would have led to them losing.

They rely on people just paying up the reduced amount straight away.

Check out the forum - very interesting & enlightening!

 

 

[kiera]

Beware of school streets which are also bus gates. 

It's worth noting that the restriction which came into force in December on Friern Road, is not only a school street restriction but, in the part adjoining Lordship Lane, it is stated by Southwark to be both a school street and a bus gate.

A timed "bus gate" restriction is in place on Friern Road at its junction with Lordship Lane as part of the Southwark Council School Streets Programme

"The effects of the (Prescribed routes) Order are to introduce a timed ‘bus gate’ restriction in FRIERN ROAD at its junction with Lordship Lane, operating between 8.00 am and 9.00 am and between 3.00 pm and 4.00 pm of every Monday to Friday throughout the year, which would prohibit all vehicles entering from Lordship Lane into the north-westbound lane of Friern Road except for buses, cycles, taxis (black cabs only) and any ‘authorised vehicles’ (vehicles that have previously arranged access from Southwark Council via submitting their licence and vehicle registration details)."

 

https://publicnoticeportal.uk/notice/traffic-and-roads/692f0ab3fcd43068eead223b

 

[ianr]

I see all three orders are made as part of the School Streets Programme, but it's only the two in para.2 that are deemed to be school streets which specified permit holders may still use when others are barred.  The one you've quoted, from para.3, the bus gate operating on entering Friern Road from LL to, seems to have much vaguer provision for authority to be granted to pass it at the times that it's operative.

AFAICS the only exemption granted in a similar bus gate, like the one in Townley Road (latest order seems to be https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/3989894 wef 17/2/22) appears to be: 

"Exemption to the restrictions described in (a)-(e) preceding would be provided for emergency services vehicles, refuse collection vehicles, and (on a discretionary basis) disabled persons vehicles (registered to Southwark resident ‘blue badge’ holders), rapid response healthcare workers vehicles and SEND vehicles."

Edited January 25 by ianr