Councillor McAsh defects to the Greens

[Moovart]

6 hours ago, Blah Blah said:

Morally they should, but we don't actually vote for parties in our electoral system. We vote for a parliamentary (or council) representative.

I think that's a big assumption.  Many people vote for the candidate precisely because they are a member of a particular party and represent that party's policiies.  I personally didn't know who McAsh was in the last election, but I knew what party he represented.  When politicians don't act "morally" what are we to think of them and their motivations?

But I think there will be people who want to vote Labour, don't know that McAsh has defected and accidentally vote Green precisely because they do vote for the name.  Yes, you could say they need to read the ballot paper more carefully but it's possible to see one thing and not notice another.

[Sue]

1 hour ago, Moovart said:

But I think there will be people who want to vote Labour, don't know that McAsh has defected and accidentally vote Green precisely because they do vote for the name.  Yes, you could say they need to read the ballot paper more carefully but it's possible to see one thing and not notice another.

I would hope that is extremely unlikely.

If people accidentally vote for someone, that's their own fault, isn't it?

[Blah Blah]

4 hours ago, Moovart said:

I think that's a big assumption.  Many people vote for the candidate precisely because they are a member of a particular party and represent that party's policiies.  

Yes they do, but that is not the core tenet of representative democracy. At that level, we are voting for a parliamentary representative, irregardless of whether parties exist or not. It's why candidates can stand as independents. 

[Suggsy]

On 28/02/2026 at 16:39, Sue said:

Sorry to be dim.

How are the Greens "peddling sectarianism"?

I have googled a definition and I can see how this might apply to Reform 🤬 but I can't see how it applies to the Greens?

@Sue now that you've been provided with an elegant sufficiency (most usefully from @Dogkennelhillbilly ) of evidence of sectarianism in the Gorton and Denton campaign, has your support for the Greens changed in any way? Genuinely interested. 

Edited 23 hours ago by Suggsy
typo

[malumbu]

On 28/02/2026 at 19:18, Sue said:

I would have thought approaching Muslims (and other ethnic groups) and using their own language  was being inclusive, and demonstrating that they were being inclusive.

Unlike Reform, who appear to deliberately stir up hatred of particular groups of people.

Unlike Labour, who appear to hate supporters of  Palestine.

But this thread is supposed to be about James McCash's move to the Greens, so if people  want to discuss more general political issues, perhaps someone could start a thread in the lounge?

 

I've not engaged in this debate so far but you can't be more wrong.

In the UK our own language is English, there is a small minority who can rightly claim their language is Welsh or Gaelic, and a couple Cornish.

British Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Christians, atheists etc will usually speak British, even if not their first language.  The vast majority will be able to understand English.  

A small percentage, less than two percent, of people living in the UK have little or no English (census data).  It is right that in certain situations eg schools there is signage and information in other languages, providing public information.

It is wrong that a political party do this, particularly one who came across as opportunist on this occasion.

There is an interesting conversation about British expats living, for example, on the continent, where I expect huge swathes who can hardly say a word of French, Spanish etc.  

[Sue]

4 hours ago, Suggsy said:

@Sue now that you've been provided with an elegant sufficiency (most usefully from @Dogkennelhillbilly ) of evidence of sectarianism in the Gorton and Denton campaign, has your support for the Greens changed in any way? Genuinely interested. 

I joined the Greens yesterday. I'm now a paid up member.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

Was it the promise to act as a "strong voice" for Muslims that sealed the deal?

The Green Party hired Abi Wilkinson from the Sultana wing of Your Party just before the Manchester by-election. She's on record as denying sexual violence during the 7 October 2023 attacks on Israel by Hamas, which is not true. I wonder if she was also responsible for the dodgy text of the Urdu and Bengali comms the Green Party pumped out in the last days of the campaign?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_and_gender-based_violence_in_the_October_7_attacks

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1rhrd36/fury_as_green_party_spin_doctor_denies_women_were/

[Sue]

15 minutes ago, Dogkennelhillbilly said:

Was it the promise to act as a "strong voice" for Muslims that sealed the deal?

The Green Party hired Abi Wilkinson from the Sultana wing of Your Party just before the Manchester by-election. She's on record as denying sexual violence during the 7 October 2023 attacks on Israel by Hamas, which is not true. I wonder if she was also responsible for the dodgy text of the Urdu and Bengali comms the Green Party pumped out in the last days of the campaign?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_and_gender-based_violence_in_the_October_7_attacks

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1rhrd36/fury_as_green_party_spin_doctor_denies_women_were/

I'm sure one can always find things which a party or an individual within it could have done better or shouldn't have said.

If one was going to use those things as a reason not to support the party, one would never support any party, and would never vote.

So far as I am concerned, the Greens represent my views on most issues better than any other party that I am currently aware of.

I really am not interested in dissecting the details of one or two specific instances,  for many reasons, not least that I have no direct knowledge of them and don't know what may be a reliable source.

[CPR Dave]

How will you vote at the Spring Conference when they put forward their motion that it is "racism" for Jews to want to live in a sovereign state on their own ancestral homeland?

[alice]

Sovereign state on their own ancestral homeland. 

[CPR Dave]

Yes.

The right to self determination in their homeland, a core principle protected by the United Nations charter.

 

A charter established by all of the world's nations in the aftermath of the Nazis attempts to eliminate the Jewish race in its entirety in the most appalling genocide in the history of human civilisation. 

 

Edited 17 hours ago by CPR Dave

[alice]

You do know they’re not the only people who have that piece of land as their ancestral homeland, don’t you?

[CPR Dave]

Are the Greens voting on whether everyone else claiming a right to live there is also racist? 

No.

It's just the Jews.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

Polanski is, by the way, unable to provide a definition of Zionism - the issue on which his party's membership will vote.

[Sue]

10 hours ago, Dogkennelhillbilly said:

Polanski is, by the way, unable to provide a definition of Zionism - the issue on which his party's membership will vote.

I've got no wish to discuss this  again. I've already given my views on a previous  thread in the lounge.

I take it you won't be voting Green, but I'm wondering quite where you are coming from with all these attacks on them?

Where do your political sympathies lie? 

This thread was supposed to be about James McAsh's move away from Labour 🙄

Anyway, it is hopefully another nice day and I'm off to do some gardening.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

1 hour ago, Sue said:

This thread was supposed to be about James McAsh's move away from Labour 🙄

 

Please don't discuss the Greens' policies on a thread about McAsh moving to the Greens! 🤣

[Angelina]

or - don't talk politics in a political discussion

Polanski's stance (and that of Greens) absolutely needs talking about. 

Seems that politics has become very race-driven. 

 

 

[HeadNun]

Anti Semitism comes in many different guises

[Angelina]

Yes - indeed.

Should we be choosing our own political parties based on their stance on Israel and religions?

[Blah Blah]

To be fair to Sue, she doesn't have to explain or justify why she supports or wants to vote for any party. That is the same for everyone. We are free to decide which party best reflects what we think is important to us. Discussing the stances/ policies of parties, in a general discussion, can be done without targetting anyone commenting here. Politics is just a point of view at the end of the day.  Different things are important to different people, often for very valid reasons. Let's be respectful of that. 

My opinion is that if say the Labour Party wants to understand why it is losing supporters to the Greens, it needs to listen to and understand the reasons why. That theme has been explored in this thread a little through the discussion around councillor McAsh. The same is true of the Tories losing support to Reform and the Libdems. Let's not also assume that every member of every party is completely on board with every policy of the leadership of that party either. You only have to look at how backbenchers have forced u-turns from Starmer's cabinet on things like Welfare Reform and WFA to see that. 

[Angelina]

Politician's moving from one party to another, especially when local is worth discussing.

You have to wonder what they are driven by, and particularly in this instance, as their new party is moving in strange directions.

[first mate]

I am struggling to understand how Green policies translate to local issues? The Southwark Greens leaflet I received reads like a general wish list but is not locally specific. I know the same can be said of other political parties.

What specifically are Greens plans for housing, protecting local parks, council tax, transport and roads/ pavement upkeep, CPZ/LTNs?

On the national stage, I'm interested in the detail of how they would reverse privatisation and take water companies back into public ownership. I am not disputing the desirability of this, but in reality how will they do it? 

Edited 1 hour ago by first mate

[Angelina]

Who you vote for locally directly can affect the Government - so it's wise to understand what that part would do if they had a majority.

The local candidate with the most votes becomes the MP. The party with most MPs becomes the government.

 

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

1 hour ago, Angelina said:

Should we be choosing our own political parties based on their stance on Israel and religions?

Personally, I won't vote for a party that says they're going to advocate for one particular religion. That's a red line for me.

Other people might have other values, though. 🤷‍♂️