Westminster Council about to charge for motorcycle parking

[SeanMacGabhann]

OK - another question. Is the fee in any way avoidable? Can you travel to work, park outside Westminster and walk the rest of the way? Does it necessarily mean doubling the cost of your weekly bike bill?

[Rhinestone Cowboy]

The borough of Westminster is huge so you could drive to Lambeth bridge in 10 mins and then walk for 30 mins to Mayfair but that hardly seems worth it.

[SeanMacGabhann]

30 mins to mayfair????? I used to walk from Victoria to Berkley Sq in 15 daily....

[dazed&confused]

Even if your regular parking bay is on the border of Westminster all the parking bays just outside Westminster will most likely be full before well before 8am.

It's not a service anyway. It doesn't actually cost the council anything once they've painted the lines on the road. By that logic you could say that zebra crossings or wastebins are a service. Even if you define them as 'services' why charge for one thing and not another.

[Brendan]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

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> >

> and so the problem is what? Society isn't an

> homogenous blob is it - just because some people

> don't like being charged for X, doesn't make it a

> bad administrative decision surely?

I was just agreeing with citizen about our taxes being our contribution to society. But on that point it also makes the government (all forms and levels) accountable for where our money goes. If suddenly a new revenue stream is needeed that wasn't needed in the past I want a fucking good explanation why. And it also means that the people have an obligation to hold them to account.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Absolutely - free wardens to check if people have parked illegally. free monitoring of traffic levels to see if more bays are needed. F*** it - just paint white lines - it's the future!!!

[Rhinestone Cowboy]

Victoria Station is sill in Westminster so you need to park outside to avoid the charge and I'm guessing this but would think it would take 15 mins to walk over the Thames...

[SeanMacGabhann]

ok ok - you got me. But it's on the extreme end of example I would imagine.

[dazed&confused]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> >

> Absolutely - free wardens to check if people have

> parked illegally. free monitoring of traffic

> levels to see if more bays are needed. F*** it -

> just paint white lines - it's the future!!!

Come on! Yeah because I really do see council officials watching parking bays regularly 'monitoring traffic'. As for traffic wardens they don't give a sh*t about motorcycle bays, or at least they didn't used to. Why? Because they're free, or at least they were. So lets introduce charging for say, using pelican crossings, because they need to be maintained and of course there needs to be a council official to monitor them, and a warden to make sure people have paid. What about zebra crossings or wastebins. F** it lets just start charging for everything - it's the future!!!

[Rhinestone Cowboy]

I think the problem started with the congestion charge.. made it free for bikes so everyone started to scooter in. then they realised that only a limited number of spaces so they change car spaces to bikes and they lose out on a revenue stream. I'm guessing but would not take long till City of London takes this up and then all boroughs.

[SeanMacGabhann]

touch? D&C

up to a point anyway. Introducing a charge shouldn't mean immediate protest. If everyone in the world traveled everywhere on foot (currently free) I could easily see a pricing mechanism introduced to encourage people to transfer to other modes of transport (or not traveling at all)

But are you seriously suggesting that all cars/bikes/bicycles should have free for all parking? Because beyond that, things start to get more complicated than you are painting (ouch) them

[Rhinestone Cowboy]

On another note if you get an electric scooter you can park for free.. I'm sure this would then change once they found out the scooters were running down 5 people a week because they could not hear them screaming through the traffic at 20 miles an hour..

[dazed&confused]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> touch? D&C

>

> up to a point anyway. Introducing a charge

> shouldn't mean immediate protest. If everyone in

> the world traveled everywhere on foot (currently

> free) I could easily see a pricing mechanism

> introduced to encourage people to transfer to

> other modes of transport (or not traveling at

> all)

>

> But are you seriously suggesting that all

> cars/bikes/bicycles should have free for all

> parking? Because beyond that, things start to get

> more complicated than you are painting (ouch) them

It's an interesting point. Which of the council services should or shouldn't we pay for? Clearly something like a planning application would merit a charge because a service is provided to an individual (or company) who is the sole beneficiary and that service is provided at the individuals request. By the same logic I think it's fair for a council to charge for parking, for cars or motorcyles, but any revenue received should be ring-fenced and should not exceed the cost to the council of providing the service. i.e. it shouldn't be just another revenue stream for the council.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I would argue that any service where demand exceeds capacity needs some form of control - possibly pricing, or possibly encouragement based.

however I think that 10-15 years of mainstream internet use and stable economy has led people to think that switches and levers can be pulled and "hey presto" more services are onstream. I really really think traffic (people/public transport/private transport) and accommodation of same is a major problem which has yet to be addressed properly and will get worse

[kford]

Yes, all 12 electric scooters in Westminster can park for free.

A parking attendant, working under contract for APCOA or NCP or whatever, earning ?60/day will have paid for himself and be generating profit for his bosses and the council with his second PCN of the day. It's big business.

[Brendan]

What?s the stance on Fuel Cell bikes? There have been various ones available for the last 3 years. There just aren?t any hydrogen filling points but apparently London is getting some next year.

[lozzyloz]

There are too many two wheeled vehicles in London. Within 10 years we'll look like Shanghai did 30 years ago. So perhaps a charge is a good thing with concessions for fully loaded tandems and motorbikes with pillion and sidecar passengers.

This is the future.

[Brendan]

Whatever happened to the Segway?

[Brendan]

There's even an offroad one so that drug dealers can still look 'ard. http://www.segway.com/individual/models/x2-adventure.php

[lozzyloz]

They're still around. I've seen them in use on military sites like airfields and in big US business parks. The i-real can be used by able and disabled people. Has full phone and web communications, pretty light displays, parking sensors and a max speed of 20mph.

[Brendan]

What worries me is where you end up if you have to make an emergency stop at 20mph in one of them.

[lozzyloz]

They have automatic collision detectors to avoid such a thing. Safer than these geriatric powered scooters that smash your ankles in Sainsbo's.

[Brendan]

Cool. Now if everyone in London will start using them there will be space on the streets for me to drive one of these.

[KalamityKel]

I really don't get what the big deal is :-|

Nuffink else to say on the matter...

[SeanMacGabhann]

Kel - is it YOU that rings up premium line phone ins just to choose the "Don't Know" option?