ED_wifi_mesh_0.1

[MeshMoron]

Is anyone interested in setting up a DIY, modular mesh network in East Dulwich?

While this would be a pretty amateur affair, mostly due to my involvement and general ineptitude, it could theoretically be quite a cool addition to our neighbourhood. Possible benefits:

1 - free/low cost wifi for ED residents

2 - run by the community for the benefit of the community

3 - training for local youth, could involve a local college/higher education course

4 - privacy, no commercial profiling/search logging etc with info being sold to marketeers

5 - private messaging/email, interesting if you follow the Snowden news

6 - world peace

disclaimer: some or all of the above benefits may not be possible (apart from item 6, they have been achieved, but by proper people that know stuff).

Here is an example of a system that is being used around the World today:

http://commotionwireless.net/

and some interesting info here:

http://www.wired.com/opinion/2014/01/its-time-to-take-mesh-networks-seriously-and-not-just-for-the-reasons-you-think/

The infrastructure can be run on relatively low cost/repurposed equipment.

Local business' could be approched for sponsorship/advertising, local councillors might have some funding ideas, could have a paid premium service dramatically undercutting the ISP monopolies and helping fund the project etc.

A local service, for local people, with lots of localness.

Please post/PM me if interested.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Forgive my ignorance, but would this be a network which only allowed those within it to communicate with each other?

[the-e-dealer]

Its a broadband service for anyone who subscribes to use.

[El Pibe]

Interesting stuff.

Rahrahrah, from my cursory investigations that's essentially yes, but Guifi.net in Spain has some nodes that provide internet for the rest of the mesh, I'm guessing something similar could be done, who pays for it is another matter (though with a bunch of you then it'd be pretty cheap I'm sure)

[willcosl]

Interesting idea and definitely worth a bit of investigation I'd say.

ED is quite a large area, so it could be tricky to achieve "critical mass" for an ED wide mesh. Would be interesting to see if there is any interest from local businesses on Lordship Lane to get things started.

[Sue]

Is it just me who has no idea whatsoever what this is all about? :))

[El Pibe]

hence the usefully provided links.

basically making use of the fact that every square inch of the area seems to be covered by a number of routers, you get them all to talk to each other to make a network, thus creating your own mini internet.

Then either have a gateway to the internet via some ISPO, or set up your own.

Hey presto free, secure, community wide wifi zone and saving a collective fortune on broadband subscription fees.

As willcosl states, getting a critical mass interested is key else it's a non starter if you can't even get the nodes to reach each other.

[Sue]

El Pibe Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> hence the usefully provided links.

xxxxxxx

I'm afraid the links made little sense to me either :))

Never mind, I gave up on stuff like this after hitting a mental brick wall whilst attempting to learn Fortran in the seventies :))

[ianr]

There's a quite nice basic six minute explanatory presentation about one such proposed scheme, PittMesh, at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvAT7DTspaM.

I'm all for shared playing around with systems, and anything that might help demystify and socialise the use of technology; though I suspect that such projects will do so only for the usual subset of enthusiasts. I'm also rather sceptical that they will do much to actually achieve the claimed purported benefits of Freedom, Privacy and Creativity. But then I'm the sort of person who's not bothered about having their digital utterances stored or mapped, or who wouldn't mind, say, all tax returns being public. And if I do want to communicate in secure privacy, I already have the means to do so.

Meanwhile, anyone who wants to help the needy now could always offer to share their BB connection with their neighbours.

PS Might the greatest value of such projects be as an experiment in building local resilience, against the day the Internet falls over?

[LadyDeliah]

Nice idea. I would be interested once you set it up.

[the-e-dealer]

If you read your terms and conditions you will find sharing your broadband violates them. However I don't think they ca tell as ong as you remove all those cables / repeaters before the engineer arrives.

[Penguin68]

Might the greatest value of such projects be as an experiment in building local resilience, against the day the Internet falls over?

If the internet 'falls over' I doubt whether access to a local wireless mesh would be of much use - it will depend on its own broadband links to a carrier or node - which will presumably have 'fallen over' with the internet. The most likely scenario for a real internet failure would be a coronal ejection of sufficient force to take out communications (and electricty) infrastructure - this mesh would hardly be immune to that. Resiliance here would be based on shielded installations and (probably) underground network distribution (and remembering to switch everything off before the surge arrives). And back-up power. But then you'd be able to interface into - well, depending on how the big players responded, probably nothing.

The point about 'the internet' is that it is an informal linking of computers and servers through third party networks supplied by carriers using an established language (html) to communicate, effectively peer-to-peer, using an established addressing system (http). My computer, or mobile, or laptop, whilst it's on and communicating, is as much part of 'the internet' as anything else - that's why you will find that your machine has an IP address.

[Loz]

the-e-dealer Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> If you read your terms and conditions you will

> find sharing your broadband violates them. However

> I don't think they ca tell as ong as you remove

> all those cables / repeaters before the engineer

> arrives.

That's standard broadband. For something on this scale you'd probably want a leased line/MPRS link straight from a comms provider.

[the-e-dealer]

I know its standard broadband - thats what the poster- ianr was referring to when he/she suggested

sharing your bb with poor neighbours.

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> the-e-dealer Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > If you read your terms and conditions you will

> > find sharing your broadband violates them.

> However

> > I don't think they ca tell as ong as you remove

> > all those cables / repeaters before the

> engineer

> > arrives.

>

> That's standard broadband. For something on this

> scale you'd probably want a leased line/MPRS link

> straight from a comms provider.

[Loz]

the-e-dealer Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I know its standard broadband - thats what the

> poster- ianr was referring to when he/she

> suggested

> sharing your bb with poor neighbours.

>

Well, yes. that would be illegal. But you could have a mesh of routers and a leased line or two to the net. though, as El Pibe suggested earlier.

[Jeremy]

Good luck to my neighbours if they want to use my broadband... I barely get reception in my own house!

[Loz]

Have you changed the wireless channel, Jeremy? If you have a clash with a neighbour you'll get a very poor signal.

[El Pibe]

So true, we have a bog standard router in our house and we get perfect signal everywhere*. It barely used to get out the room in ENgland.

*my crapper is 12 metres and 5 walls away!

[MeshMoron]

Hello, thanks for taking interest in this idea (I don't think it could be called an actual project yet). Just a few points to answer some of your queries.

Realism first - I didn't expect this post to elicit a gushing rush of support, offers of bandwidth, equipment and expertise, then sit back and bask in the imminent blossoming. In fact, I thought it quite likely post it would get shot to pieces, so just the fact that there hasn't, yet, been open hostility and derision, is great (the wonderful comfort that low expectations can provide).

Getting started - As mentioned by @ianr, it needs a "subset of enthusiasts" to provide the basis, as well as 2 or 3, local council/enthusiast/business/someone sponsored larger antenna in central locations. After that, other people could help by donating some roof space or a windowsill, and electricity (cost for electricity to power average BT router for a year = ?10 - ish. Found radomly via Google, so can't guarantee the accuracy.)

Who pays for the bandwidth - (this section needs work, and actual substance) local council/Govt inititives or charities attempting to get people online/local business sponsors/community donations. I'm having a second line put in soon that will be connected to an enthusiast/business ISP, and I would donate a fair amount to the project to get it started.

So... this is clearly a long way off being anything.

However, if anyone finds this interesting/knows about computers or networks/runs a local business with cash surplus/or just has loads of money and are bored thinking of ways to spend it - please get in touch - and thank you to the people who have already PMd me!

[MeshMoron]

@Penguin68 - Disaster recovery? Not a big motivater for me, but then I am the kind of person who would be absolutely screwed in the event of a disaster. As you mentioned, any such event would likely effect the underlying network infrastructure, but similar projects have allowed local communication to continue, and disaster relief services have gone as far as to hook up a satellite data links to provide external reach. This happened in Redhook, Brooklyn after "super storm Sandy"... apparently. Not saying it's particularly relevant to ED.

[AcedOut]

In theory, a wifi mesh network could eliminate the need for a telco provider in the future. But critical mass in the key. This will be the next big thing though. Just wait for that to be the next killer 'App'.