The Budget..

[uncleglen]

There are a lot of people who vote Labour 'on principle'......probably even more now because they received a crap education under Labour and can barely read- which is why Milliband is so keen on a televised debate with the PM.

[Blah Blah]

What a stupid thing to say Uncle. There are lot of people who vote for all parties because their parents did/ do as well. The truth is that very few people actually think very deeply about the reasons why they always vote for a particular party. They just have an inate idea that's the party for them. That is why the home counties are full of die hard Tory voters who spawn children who also become die hard Tory voters. And it's also why the major urban centres are full of die hard labour voters who spawn children of the same. Only when those main parties stop working for them, do they start to question that. So we end up with s nation of people who vote out of total self interest, for politicians who shape policy in the same way. And we end up with majority governments with minority voting share. Nothing truly democratic about it whatsoever.

[JohnL]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> There are a lot of people who vote Labour 'on

> principle'......probably even more now because

> they received a crap education under Labour and

> can barely read- which is why Milliband is so keen

> on a televised debate with the PM.

So should you vote on principle and stick with a political party even when they aren't at there best

as they are your party and will represent your values.

Should you be pragmatic and go for what's best for you at that time (or even the UK or the World if you like)

or should you vote tactically and vote to keep someone else out.

I think all three are valid reasons to vote.

[uncleglen]

(Tory voters do not 'spawn' children they have about 1.7 per family on average fyi blah blah)

People should vote for what is best for the UK I think....but this does not happen and we all know that the Scots vote totally out of self-interest (remember Brown last time-'I'm the only one who can get (he meant 'screw' of course) money for Scotland from the South-East' What he (and them) are too stupid to realise is that the more money generated in the South east from Tory policies the more money potentially Scotland could screw out of us.

As a public sector worker I would naturally be better off under Labour but the wastage and the blind toeing of the socialist party line makes me sick.

In Dulwich I vote tactically- especially for the local council elections

[Blah Blah]

Oh Uncle. Typical shift of focus from my main point to something totally pedantic and irrelevant.

99% of voters vote out of self interest Uncle. That's why ALL parties have targetted policies doh.

And socialist lines are the reason why we have public services at all. Don't forget that. In the free market utopia of the opposite view, there are no state provisions, just the foolhardy belief that the free market will take care of everything. We know it doesn't. So a compromise between the two is definitely better than either/ or. We are all as much socialists as we are capitalists. We all want health care and education for all. We used to want housing, food and jobs for all too.

[Earl Aelfheah]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> There are a lot of people who vote Labour 'on

> principle'......probably even more now because

> they received a crap education under Labour and

> can barely read- which is why Milliband is so keen

> on a televised debate with the PM.

.... another charming Tory speaks

[Loz]

I've never quite worked out why lefties vote for the centre-right Labour party. Least worst option I suppose. But some of them are actually enthusiastic about the party that holds few to none of their views.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I think the vague starting point of 'Lefties' may be the barrier to making sense of the rest of the observation. Those who are on the extreme left, probably aren't particularly enthusiastic about the Labour party.

[Otta]

For some of us it has nothing to do with being a lefty, but everything to do with not being a righty.

[Blah Blah]

The whole left right thing though is just a label for particular sets of views though isn't it? Most people I think establish philosophies for their lives based on how they morally and ethincally view the world and themselves in it. It just happens that we define collective philosophies as left and more individualistic philosophies as right (economically speaking) and many people have views from both sides of fence. Die hards on either the left or right tend to be far fewer than we think, but also tend to be most vocal. It all goes out of the window when we look at dictatorships of course. They can be either left or right.

I think traditionally we are a centre left/right country, and in the past, the party that wins general elections has typically been the one best able to occupy that ground.

[Loz]

Blah Blah Wrote:

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> I think traditionally we are a centre left/right country, and in the past, the party that wins

> general elections has typically been the one best able to occupy that ground.

I would go a little further and say we are a centre-right country on economic matters and centre-left on social matters. But yes, whoever wants to run the country has to occupy that ground. Which is why whoever wins out of whatever combination of Con/Lab/LD means very little, as they are all jostling for that same position. There is the perception that the Tories get pulled to the right and Labour to the left, but in reality, this doesn't ever really happen.

So I do find it amusing when lefties say they don't want the Tories in and righties say they don't want Labour. They are so close to each other, policy-wise, that it really matters not one jot. Whoever wins will still stick with austerity, have ineffective (but loudly trumpeted) policies on immigration, suck up to business, try to look to be tough on benefit fraud, continue privatising stuff and spend lots of money on the NHS. Yes, there will be minor difference and slightly different approaches, but for the major stuff they are all much of a muchness.

[Blah Blah]

I couldn't agree agree with you more Loz. Totally spot on.

[Otta]

Loz Wrote:

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> So I do find it amusing when lefties say they

> don't want the Tories in and righties say they

> don't want Labour. They are so close to each

> other, policy-wise, that it really matters not one

> jot. Whoever wins will still stick with

> austerity, have ineffective (but loudly trumpeted)

> policies on immigration, suck up to business, try

> to look to be tough on benefit fraud, continue

> privatising stuff and spend lots of money on the

> NHS. Yes, there will be minor difference and

> slightly different approaches, but for the major

> stuff they are all much of a muchness.

I think this is undoubtedly true right now, although how they will choose to implement their policies will still differ. But as the country recovers and things aren't so tight, they'll move further away from the centre.

[Blah Blah]

Not sure if that's true to be honest. Whilst they might tinker at the edges with things like public services, tax etc - they are pretty close in all other respects - certainly economically. Which is why nothing really changes on that front (we continue to hurtle towards a low waged economy that can't raise the tax receipts needed for public services and it's been that way for decades now). Modern versions of all parties believe in that economic model.

[Otta]

I don't mean they'll go way to the left/right, just that there will seem like there is SOME genuine difference.

Which right now is hard to find.

[Loz]

I don't think there has been much difference since John Smith died. And that was over 20 years ago.

[miga]

.