Embassies now owe ?26m on Congestion Charge!!!

[Huguenot]

Get a nice taxi Tony, I'm sure that'd impress your ladies.

You demonstrate a charming blind eye to your subordination to advertising. It's not the car that 80% of Young Single Males want, it's a symbolic demonstration of wealth, influence, independence and worldliness.

It's only daft buggers who believe too much telly that associate this with cars.

If allotments were plastered all over the telly then 80% of Single Young Males would want one of those.

[????]

Hugenot, i take it you'll not be flying back to the UK or infact anywhere anytime given you.re a man of principle....or is it a bit of your usual horseshite?

[Huguenot]

;-)

You know me Quids.

As it happens I haven't been to the UK recently, and last time I went to Malaysia I went by train. Took 24 hours. Ridiculous really.

I'm 38 and never owned a car. I get attacked for not having a family, so 'I don't understand' but I tend to think the way Bawdy-Nan does.

I'm not an eco-nazi, I'm conscious of the impact of my activity and try to minimise. I loathe the self-satisfaction and righteousness of the car lobby, and I'm ashamed that people have confused car ownership with self-actualisation.

My view of private car ownership is that it manifests itself as a psychological abdication of social responsibility. People get behind the wheel and get all 'f*ck you'. Cars in a modern city are utterly unnecessary for anything but ego-crutch. They destroy the aesthetics of existence. Poo poo.

[northlondoner]

H, bruv, you have GOT to relax. You'll give yourself a hernia! You sound like a person of principle - which in itself really deserves respect. But try to not to vilify and insult anyone who disagrees with you or has the temerity to make different choices. It detracts from the cogency of your argument - and there's a danger people will stop listening.

I am a car owner and don;t use it as an ego cructh etc. Most people don;t - it's just a means of getting around to see mates do shopping, visit relatives etc. And as for my little Peugeot being a means of self-actualisation - well what does that even MEAN FFS? It's a car, not a freaking philosphical code! I would love to use public transport more - but sometimes it just aint practical.

Anyway - i gather you are posting from overeas? Whereabouts?

[Huguenot]

S'pore northlondoner.

I should of course take you to task on "it's just ain't practical", there's plety of alternatives, they just ain't convenient.

My rhetoric belies my amicable persona, no chance of a heart attack here ;-)

Little by little is a valid strategy, and the wallpaper effect a real risk.

I read a couple of pages from Malcolm Gladwell's 'Outliers' the other day, and it touched on the fact that social norms are the principle cause of most airline crashes. Most problems aren't catastrophic, but often understated by co-pilots or engineers using ambivalent language when communicating the problem.

"Can you allocate us a runway as a priority, as we're running short on fuel"

Big deal, every airplane is running short on fuel on approach, it saves costs. This 'plane crashed.

The UK is suffering a terminal low fuel issue: economically, environmentally and its global status. The language is ambivalent.

[LegalEagle-ish]

Quids, thousands of people travel around the capital with their kids, including babies, on public transport - at least you don't have to fold the buggie up anymore on the bus like you used to.

I did it with my first two who are only 16 months apart and had to juggle buggie, shopping and two small babies on the old fashioned buses. You adapt and develop strong arms!

And now with my granddaughter I have found it so much easier to take her out on public transport than I ever did when my kids where small, even with bags of shopping. I also have a bike trailer to pull her around for short journeys and my daughter has a bike seat for her.

Unless you are disabled, there is really no excuse for having a car in London, it is a luxury, not a necessity and if you ever do need to use a car occasionally, street car or 1car1 is a cheap way to do it, but you find that when you don't own a car, you get used to not needing one, so rarely rent one either.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

I have a car and have no qualms about it. Mine was out of commission for six months and I hated it.

With aged Ps who have both been in hospital in the last 12 months it brings great peace of mind that I can get to where they live relatively quickly.

Having said that, I generally only use it for a big shop up here.

[????]

Sean, if you're going to take such a morally certain position about this, in all honesty how can you justify flying to New York for a leisure trip ? Personally,I think you're entitled to do this and sounds like you had a great trip from our chat earlier but I don't know how any flyer can really point a finger at a car owner and keep a straightface!

[????]

Huge.....I'm not sure if ever read anything so funny or steretyped about car drivers......I hope it was as intentded to be as funny as it was...you should consider becoming a new columnist, "Eco warrior", in Private Eye

[SeanMacGabhann]

Quids

Like Huguenot earlier I balance that trip last weekend with the fact that I generally fly very little, and don't own a car. Nor do I subscribe to an idea that people should never drive. Or fly. Or whatever... I'm not anti any of these things (a point I often make but is rarely referred to)

But when the demand for these things becomes a rallying cry (we must be allowed to do these things at any cost and no matter how congested it makes things) is when I pipe up and say "come on... it's easy enough to do without"

by the by, it would have been more interesting if, in our earlier chat you had brought the subject up then, rather than chat merrily then come on here and have a pop ;-)

[????]

That'd ruined your shopping and my walk......random meeting is not the place for such heavy matters....or maybe I hadn'tread the whole thread ;-)