Demographics in ED - where are the ethnic minorities?

[Nero]

Seema asked me to start a new thread re Goose Green Dulwich Festival:

I looked at the pix from last year. What struck me was how 'PLU" (people like us) it was. I know that ED has a certain demographic, but I'd say 90% were white, 20-50 somethings. There are black and asian people living around here, but why are they not there? I rarely see ethnic minorities in The Palmerston, Black Cherry, Caffe Nero, Jacks, etc. It disturbs me and makes me feel uncomfortable about why this should be. Do the minorities feel excluded? Are there any ethnio minority EDF posters? Discuss. Nero

[SeanMacGabhann]

Nero - surprised noone has picked up on this thread.

I think all cultures are drawn to like for like - the fair next weekend for example won't have many of the white population who favour burberry caps and tracksuits - so it's more to do with that than ethnicity. Liqourish tends to have a sizeable non-caucasian customer base - if I arrange to meet some of my black friends that's where they suggest we meet.

Could be because it's new and doesn't have the history that places like EDT/Forresters(now Bishop) etc had. Actually The Bishop has a pretty darn diverse crowd so not sure about my last statement

Also, having lived in predominantly Asian areas of London and having Asian friends - culturally there just isn't much of a pubgoing habit there.

I wonder if all of the attendees of the MegaChurch on Evalina Rd wonder where all the white people are on a Sunday morning?

[spadetownboy]

ethnic minorities are not just judged by colour,nationality also defines ones ethnicity,therefore as an irishman i am part of an ethnic minority group whos posts on this site as is sean.if you take that into context of the 90% of honkys at the festival last year it would be safe to assume a fair percentage of those were members of an ethnic minority. you only have to cast your eyes around the streets of ed to see how big a part the members of ethnic minority groups play,just because they dont go to the pub dosent mean they dont exist.

[mockney piers]

Anyone with any common sense will understand that the these islands are populated by an enourmous ethnic mix full stop.

There has been wave after wave of immigration, well, since before there was anyone here. And I'm not just talking about the big ones, the celts, the romans, the angles, saxons, jutes and normans.

This has been a refuge for every persecuted minority for hundreds of years, French huguenots, Dutch anabaptists, Swiss zwinglists, German calvinists etc. As well as political/economic refugees or just plain business opportunists. All of whom have settled in varying degrees, Irish, Poles, Jews, Italians, Russians for hundreds of years, and helped build our fair city and many other parts of the country.

Most of these have intermarried and anglicized their names such that most of 'us' Brits are totally unaware of being complete genetic hybrids.

I thoroughly enjoyed the 100% English program where loads of jumped up little englanders discovered they were part Russian, Gypsy, Chinese, Indian etc. Gary Bushell rather wonderfully found out he had a fair chunk of sub-saharan African in him.

All a long long way of saying that I think ethnicity is a pretty meaningless concept full stop, and don't go thinking any other country is that different, even if less blatantly than the UK.

The fact that I'm a Spano-Germano-Welsh-Anglo-Scot via the west indies with probably more than a dash of Jewish, Moorish and Arab and who knows what else thrown in the mix is neither here nor there in this I assure you ;-)

[SeanMacGabhann]

honky - I just always laugh when I see that word

But to be fair to Nero I think the point was he knows they exist, just why isn't a supposed community day, or public places like bars, a good place for people to mingle more?

Like I said I think culture and backgound play more of a part than one's ethnic background. And all of these cultures are visible on the streets of ED (hurrah!) but may not choose to "do" the same things

As for Nero's point about exclusion - my guess is that the main people feeling excluded in the area these days are the less affluent (whatever culture, ethnic group, etc) they fall in to

[mockney piers]

To address Nero's point rather than wander off as I did, I think Sean's pretty close to the mark. People tend to hang around with their own, however that may be defined, and it'll have as much to do with circles of friends, country of origin, religion, original London settling area and perceived class (for want of a better word of which there must be one).

So not many yummy mummies hanging around the mosque on Northcross road, just as not many Muslims in the EDT (actually not many yummy mummies there). East Dulwich is one of the 'whitest' areas in London full stop which may explain something. I don't think there's any sinister reason why LL is predominantly white, it just historically is. A first generation of immigration will tend to hang around together because people like to be among their own. Witness the Essexisation of vast tracts of southern Spain. ED never featured as one of these (actually it was pretty Irish for a long time, but they've mostly gone home to enjoy the fruits of the Celtic Tiger (ewww, I hope not plums)

I see blacks in the EDT pretty often, but this isn't Brixton. Which is not far away and the clubs there must be tempting if that scene is more your thing. In fact if clubbing is your scene at all then short of the Vale (ho ho ho) ED is going to attract is it.

[bawdy-nan]

East Dulwich is slightly more white than London with 74% compared to 71% across London generally but it also has slightly more black residents (17% compared to 11% across London). At least, thats accoridng to the census.

I think the visibility of different ethnicities depends on where you go in ED and what you do. I don't hang out at EDT or the Palmerston but I see a rich mix of people at my children's nursery, at the doctors and at the bus stop...

I imagine if you go to church (which I don't ) its pretty mixed (given what I see on the sunday morning streets).

I had a great time at the amazing Sikh festival/parade on Lordship Lane and Goose Green.

There are lots of different experiences of ED and lots of different ways to be part of the community. Shops, bars and restaurants are just one way.

[citizenED]

now that this year's fair has come and gone - i noticed a number of black people there, the lovely lady on the Gumboots stall for example and - of course - the Event Security and the Southwark Community Wardens. What does that tell us?

citizen

[Tony.London Suburbs]

I was interested to see what EDF wws discussing back in the day so I viewed the last 5 pages and I came across this absolute gem of a thread.

I have made nearly 3,000 replies on EDF but for the first time I'm utterly speechless.

Thank you so much for the best laugh I have had since I joined up.

The replies and the views above are most illuminating and enlightening.:)-D