Southwark Meadows Day

[Penguin68]

I am very concerned about moves to attempt to further en-forest what has traditionally been meadowland in Camberwell Old Cemetery.

OK ? I know this is a wind-up ? but not entirely so. Those who walk in the cemetery will have noted that quite a large portion of the currently-in-use area at the south (ish) end has been left un-cut so creating a hay meadow. With the addition of some wild flower seeds (such as are growing currently in the bed in the Horniman gardens) this would re-create the traditional meadowland (with all the benefits to wild-life, bees and butterflies etc.) that were probably its pre-cemetery origins in the meadowland/ pastureland originally bought from a farmer when the cemetery was first created.

This is (in wild-life and ?nature? terms) a far more productive use for the land than the scrub-growth which is proposed for clearance. And is more true to the ?original? land use pre-cemetery.

It would also be wholly consistent with its continued use for burials ? hay meadows are traditionally cut-back in late summer ? but can be allowed to grow back up the following year. Thus the objectives of both nature lovers and those who wish the area to continue to be of service to the relics of Southwark residents can be met.

[dimples]

Very well said !

[Siduhe]

Agreed. A nice idea with some balance to it.

[Nigello]

Great idea - but now you just have to make sure it gets to the right person. I doubt that person is reading the EDF, though it is a possibility.

[henryb]

The council's plan is for meadow areas to be reused for burials as well after the wooded areas are used - much like the area on wood vale. The council have been asked for natural meadow burials in the meadow areas to preserve them but they have refused so far. The meadow areas you like will be gone to.

Have you actually walked arround the areas to be developed penguin? There is a oak with of a girth of 4ms in there. That would mean the tree predates the cemetery and be close to the enclosure act date. The old native oaks are repopulating the area so the there are lots of young oak saplings in the area. There are younger native shrub plants hawthorn, elder growing in between the larger trees a "scrub" as call it but these are very important to wildlife and beautiful imo.

So yes let's save the meadows.

[Penguin68]

Trees have always formed part of the 'furniture' of cemeteries (yew, very traditionally) and I have no doubts that the oak you refer to was either an initial cemetery planting or may even date back to an original hedgerow oak in the originating pastureland. I would be surprised, if it is healthy, that the council would clear this (their tree officer would surely object, if it was brought to his attention).

The area which is now the equivalent of hay meadow covers old graves, now seldom if at all visited, so being obscured by hay in the summer isn't an issue. Cemeteries are long-term investments in the ecology - new burials will, for some time, I'm sure, be kept clear to allow ease of visiting - but over time the reversion of land to a 'wilder' (without being scrub woodland) state is something to be encouraged (and means that the cost of upkeep, not mowing during the summer for instance, will be contained).

We need to consider the long-run life(!) of a cemetery - bits will be old burials, bits new - and these will be treated and look different. Trying to freeze in time the look of the cemetery makes no real sense, but a long term plan which is sensitive both to the environment and to the needs of those wishing to use it for its primary purpose does make sense. The continuation of overgrown elements (particularly where access to these is actually hazardous with unstable monuments) really doesn't make sense in this context. Sensible planting of native species in recovered areas (like the dogwood plantation at the Langston Rise end) seem a good option - so Hawthorne and Elder additionally planted once the scrub has been recovered - but in an appropriate position for using the cemetery - again makes sense.

Leaving self-seeded shrubs wherever they have happened to self-seed doesn't in a managed environment, which is what a cemetery needs to be. Even the growth in Dulwich Woods (which really are woods, and managed as such, if only secondary growth around a former railway line) have to be tended to carefully. No woods are really wild in the UK, nor would you actually want them to be.

[Nigello]

Penguin68, you sound well informed. Are you able to put that to good use by talking directly to the people in charge of the cemetery and their bosses?

Whilst it's a good thing to share you knowledge here it's unlikely to reach the powers that be unless you make an effort to do so.

[edhistory]

Even Mr James Barber is now falsely calling this overgrown area "Southwark Woods".

SE22 Magazine, Issue 126. page 44.

[Andrew1011]

edhistory Wrote:

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> Even Mr James Barber is now falsely calling this

> overgrown area "Southwark Woods".

>

> SE22 Magazine, Issue 126. page 44.

Really? I never had him down as an opportunistic bandwagon jumper.

[edhistory]

Penguin68 Wrote:

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> I am very concerned about moves to attempt to

> further en-forest what has traditionally been

> meadowland in Camberwell Old Cemetery.

Have you seen this:

http://www.savesouthwarkwoods.org.uk/object/4590467108

Make your own judgment about these people.

John K