Is there a God?

[Huguenot]

I'm guessing that it's just convenient.

Why do we die?.... That's God innit.

Why do we live?.... Well, God

How does the remote control work?.... God

Why does shit happen?.... God.... errr....'s testing you.

Why are other people nasty?.... God. And Lizards. Both.

If I'm a control freak and need to find meaning in everything where will I find it?.... GOD.

If I'm so pathetically inadequate I need to abdicate responsibility for everyday decisions where can I turn?.... Well...

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Shame on you Hugenot. You bear a name that screams out for the rights of religious freedom and belief.

If you don't believe in God - fine. No need to take the piss out of those that do.

[i'd fold my arms, but I have tennis elbow.]

[silverfox]

Huguenot said:

"...If I'm so pathetically inadequate I need to abdicate responsibility for everyday decisions where can I turn?.... Well..."

You've completely missed the point Huguenot. On the contrary, people who believe in God/Allah/Yahweh don't abdicate responsibility for everyday decisions but try (I emphasise try) to live a life where actions and decisions are framed with notions of morality and justice. (As do many non-believers.)

I've been following the 'Does anyone else miss TLS's + Bigbadwolf's posts?' and the views that they should/should not have been banned for offensive posts. While your tongue-in-cheek post here doesn't cause me any offence, it could be said to be potentially more offensive than anything TLS or BDW have said. It also doesn't contribute anything to the question of whether there is/isn't a God.

[????]

Hugenot being outrageously offensive again and its ok? No evidence of cliqueness here then.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Even for the most ardent people of faith, I can't believe that's true

If you believe in something as tenuous as God, then I'll defend your right to that belief - but I might think you daft. If you support Accrington Stanley and you believe they will be in the Premiership in 5 years time I will do exactly the same

And I might go as far as to say it out loud. And I might resent you claiming your belief gives you special rights amongst the rest of us (be it education, state or whatever)

But by all means go ahead and believe it anyway

But if you go around hoping people get gang-raped to death, as per one of the banees, who can defend that?

That just isn't like for like comparison

[SeanMacGabhann]

Convince me it's outrageously offensive then quids?

Aren't MOST of the answers Huguenot gave also given by people of faith on many occassions?

Besides he posted it at 1:20am - at least give Admin time to decide after he's read it

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

I certainly think Hugenot's been unfair to lizards.

[????]

Fair point on Admin Sean - Hugenots got my goat up this morning and I've got a shitty cold

[SeanMacGabhann]

;-)

Well who's goat hasn't Huguenot got at some point? I know I've been speechless with him on more than one occassion

[Brendan]

I feel I have to step in here and shepherd you all in the right direction.

In a good way obviously.

You can?t really have a discussion about the nature/existence of God without disregarding the actual question of God and with it all the questions of religions, beliefs and ?yes there is?/?no there isn?t? prejudices that come bundled up with it.

You are far more likely to come across any over arching sentience if you pursue inquiry purely into the nature of the universe that we, as sacks of information processing water, perceive.

Of course you won?t actually answer any questions, or those that you think you have answered will only pose more and more questions but you will have a bloody good discussion.

And just to keep things fair from now on every time Huguenot uses a word that I don?t understand I?m reporting his post.

[SeanMacGabhann]

ok sentience-boy ;-)

[Brendan]

Isn't Sentience Boy some sort of Emo pop-group?

[silverfox]

Sean said:

"...That just isn't like for like comparison."

As I understand it, BBW (and possibly TLS) said some unacceptable things to a handful of individuals.

Huguenot has potentially insulted millions of adherents. If he has committed an offence here his 'crime' is worse than BBW's.

But I'd qualify that by saying anyone who takes offence is being silly and I'm not picking on Huguenot here for what he said as such. It may have been a wind-up or he genuinely feels that way. Many people feel that way about religion. To me it doesn't matter. I just prefer people to look as if they've thought about the issue whether they believe in a God or not.

[mockney piers]

Huguenot's even made me see red and get steam out of my ears and I love the chap dearly.

I can't see how his above statement is either offensive or cliquey.

He's setting his stallmout about what purpose a deity given that he doesn't believe on its existence.

Don't see the problem there.

[mockney piers]

I'm glad of your caveat there silverfox, anyone who takes offence really needs a thicker skin.

Plus it isn't offensive at all anyway, it's a debating position.

[Brendan]

silverfox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> As I understand it, BBW (and possibly TLS) said

> some unacceptable things to a handful of

> individuals.

Not really. It depends how you view free speech. But in our Western view saying:

?If I'm a control freak and need to find meaning in everything where will I find it?.... GOD.?

Is the same as saying,

?Those of don?t accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour will burn for eternity in the bowels of hell.?

They are both unpleasant things to say and expose some sort of intent in the speaker to assert a superior viewpoint over their audience. They are both, however within the boundaries of acceptable speech.

This however: ?Your fuck of a fuck in my fuck so fuck fuck and it fuck killed with fuck fuck like you deserve you fuck up the fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck etc??

? is the sort of thing that gets people banned and is not acceptable, especially not on a public forum. .

[Brendan]

Anyway, so is there a god or not?

[mockney piers]

"Anyway, so is there a god or not?"

yes, err I mean no.

What shall we talk about next then George?

Politics what are your politics?

Middle of the road.... Ho ho ho, middle of the road!!

[SeanMacGabhann]

and where is The Chair when you need him/her?

[Brendan]

Why, do they have the answer? As we would all like to know.

In fact it will probably get them a slot on Oprah.

[mockney piers]

I don't believe in The Chair. He's just a facile comfort blanket, an abnegation of our personal moral responsibilty not to offtopicate.

[PeckhamRose]

Those with faith who ram it down my neck via the state and state TV (BBC) make me realise just how un-advanced we are as a species. We all need stories to explain our lives and there is no question there are some great stories in the Bible. But I really believe (HA!) that in a thousand years time if we are still here, people will look back on these days when people believed in ThirdPartyGod, as a primitive time in human evolution.

And when people do things 'in the name of God' and tell me they still consider they have free speech and free will they are simply not making sense. I do get upset (really) when religious people tell me I can't be of moral character without god's guidance. I don't NEED to stick of hell or carrot of heaven to do the right thing. I rely on evidence of people's reaction and my own feelings of having done a good thing.

To my mind the simple explanation for it all is that we needed to make stuff up to explain nature, and some of us are still too daft* to realise that other humans are clever and scientifically explained nature, while the daft* believers stick to their religious stories. We now know for example that magic mushrooms grew in abundance around where Jesus made his more famous speeches.

* you're offended by 'daft'?!

[Brendan]

Not that you don?t also have a need to have strongly routed beliefs eh?

[Brendan]

Sorry to seem facetious but ?There is a god he lives in church/There isn?t a god it?s nonsense? is a question most five year olds are capable of and normally have grappled with.

[Brendan]

Apologies PR. I don?t mean to sound like such an arse. I just get frustrated as the question is so much bigger than the little/repetitive/predictable arguments that crop up all the time.