Is there a God?

[HAL9000]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> good evidence for reincarnation...

A leading candidate must be (what believers interpret as) the vivid and detailed personal memories of past lives revealed during regression or reverie.

Traditional criticism that such memories are rarely reconcilable with historical records might be countered by reference to the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics ? one would have thought?

[ManOfTheCloth]

I have vivid memories of events, without undergoing regression - of dreams I have had. The majority of dreams we never remember, these are the dreams we hsve in our deepest sleep. Details of perceived past lives, supposedly revelead in regression, is a poor argument for belief in reincarnation.

[HAL9000]

Most people who recall 'past lives' during regression deduce reincarnation as the logical explanation without reference to religious doctrine or scriptures.

I cannot think of any experiential evidence for resurrection - it is entirely dependent on religious exegesis and blind faith.

So, it may be poor in your view but it is surely better than the complete absence of evidence offered by the promoters of resurrection?

[ManOfTheCloth]

Although you didn't actually say it, you are right to assert the importance of the doctrine of the resurrection as central and pivotal to the Catholic faith. For me, without it, the whole thing falls down. I wouldn't agree with your statement that it is based on Blind faith however, more, I would argue, on a clear view of faith. Without the resurrection, the faith would not have lasted 2 years, never mind 2000. Many others faiths purporting to have a messiah or a prophet, around the same time in history as Jesus, crumbled for this very reason. The prophet or messiah died and everyone went their own ways. This did not happen with the early Christians, if you read the evidence of what happened in the early Church, it is clear they were spurred on by something very powerful, so powerful, in fact, that it enabled them to give up their lives, in a totally peaceful way. The way others saw them living and supporting each other, encouraged others to join them and this is how the church grew. The Catholic Church has always been here since Christ and it will continue to be so, despite what you may think of its inadequacies, faults and evil actions throughout history, it is still here and it will always be. That is credibility in itself.

[Huguenot]

Islam seemed to get by without a resurrection.

I don't think early followers saw Christianity as caring and sharing at all. They saw it is a form of unionisation and gave them a sense of identity that subverted the colonial vacillations of the time.

Organised religion remains a political movement with a creation myth and a totalitarian objective.

[ManOfTheCloth]

I'm no Muslim but I do know a little about it. Many Muslims believe Muhammad ascended into heaven after his culling spree throughout the Middle East, a warrior in opposition to the peaceful Jesus. Islam can be argued, quite convincingly, to be a form of Arianism, an early heresy. It is why it holds Jesus in high esteem, as a prophet and Mary his mother is revered in it as well. Its roots are Christianity that got skewed for one reason or another.

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[SeanMacGabhann]

I've read Amityville Horror - based on a true story. I expect that might even be true too

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[SeanMacGabhann]

you said it...

[SeanMacGabhann]

you know... as long as we're introducing concepts like "logic"

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[SeanMacGabhann]

ooops - logic didn't last long there did it?

rubsley- what's your opinion on Scientology? bunkum or with merit?

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[mockney piers]

Excellent idea, when are the slow motion replays of the water to wine and the post plummet anlaysis of satan's descent?

Should make for good viewing.

[SeanMacGabhann]

be fair, I suspect you know enough to have an opinion. You being a writer and curious and all... you know plenty enough

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[SeanMacGabhann]

because unlike Match of the Day, but like religion it requires people to "believe" something to be true before they can comment. Whereas my partner has zero interest in football but she will watch a bit and tell me what she thinks based on what she has seen

and scientology is clearly batshit mental - and I can say that because I don't believe in little green men or anything like them

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[SeanMacGabhann]

You know me so well. I am truly an incurious soul, lacking any any understanding or humility

I do know the phrase "shilling the rubes" tho

[HAL9000]

Just a minor point: Islam is based on resurrection.

Regarding the 'early' Christians: Just as 'early' Judaism was based on a pseudo-history stretching back to the Creation, Christianity and Islam were also based on pseudo-histories ? it?s a common literary device within Judaeo-religious scriptures.

In the case of Christianity, it probably appeared within the Roman Empire in the form of several [supposedly] pre-existing rival sects sometime between 150 and 300 AD ? some scholars place its appearance as late as 450 AD, albeit controversially.

There is little doubt amongst serious scholars that the Church rewrote crucial parts of the pre-fall history of the Roman Empire to support its scriptures - almost everything we know about that period comes to us filtered by Christian monastic scribes: the process is known as pious or religious fraud.

Edited for clarity.

[mockney piers]

Whilst I agree on most points there Hal, Islam isn't based upon resurrection, it just nods tonthe usual bullshit eschatology that most religions adhere to.

Is that because destruction is a preordination or because were all a bit gloomy, I dunno.

Yes I do, it's the latter.

It doesn't make any of the above either profound or true. Just the usual bullshit wrapped up with some extra hellfire and brimstone.

Unless of course you were referring to the various Shiite bits and bobs with various relatives of mohammed turning up again. A bit odd if you ask me, particularly in the light of his and/or her refusals to do all that turning up stuff.

[mockney piers]

And yes, we've only about 5 billion years left in this star system, I get it.

[HAL9000]

mockney piers Wrote:

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> Islam isn't based upon resurrection

I'd love to know where you and Hugo get that idea from - do either of you have a citation?

Islam is predicated on the Day of Resurrection (Yawm al-Qiy?mah) when everyone will be resurrected and judged. This is derived from the Day of Judgement and End of Times eschatologies found within Christianity and Rabbinical Judaism, respectively.

Edited for accuracy.

[mockney piers]

Most religions come up with daft eschatology. That's not the basis of the religion (unless you're talking about moons or jehovas witnesses, or the various millennialists (or any millenarians for that matter) at the end of the last millennia who believed it to be both literal and imminent.

Man of the cloth was making a valid point that Christianity's very core is based upon Christ's ressurection, without that he'd have been just another prophet.

What you were doing was nit-picking, and rather weakly at that.

None of which gets us closer to any answers.