An ED resident writes...

[HAL9000]

pk - It might be easier if you posted your view or argument rather than trying to draw it out of other posters' contributions. That way, anyone who wishes to agree or take issue can engage with you directly.

[pk]

HAL9000 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> pk - It might be easier if you posted your view or

> argument rather than trying to draw it out of

> other posters' contributions. That way, anyone who

> wishes to agree or take issue can engage with you

> directly.

my first post on this this thread:

"i saw this story on the local news last night and Rod Liddle was denying he was racist etc, etc

when i read the stuff i thought that he must've decided that he was going to go out of his way to be overtly racist - what a w**ker"

from a response to you up the thread:

"i haven't got any stats that show that what he said is true, i doubt that any exist"

pretty much sums up my opinion

[HAL9000]

Well, I don't see anyone arguing with you so I guess you're home and dry on this one.

[silverfox]

Rap music, goat curry and why crying racism won't help us beat black crime

"... in his own clumsy way, Liddle has touched on a very real problem - the disproportionate number of young black men who commit crime.

It's no use howling 'racism', this is a real problem confronting our society ...

On her blog, Abbott writes: 'Sadly 80 per cent of gun crime in London is "black on black", often involving boys in their teens. As a black woman and the mother of a teenage son, this is frightening and wholly unacceptable.' ...

Why is it acceptable for Ms Abbot to raise such issues, but not Mr Liddle? ..."

Kwasi Kwarteng http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1234026/KWASI-KWARTENG-Rap-music-goat-curry-crying-racism-wont-help-beat-black-crime.html

[*Bob*]

The problem is that the tone and implication of Liddle's 'piece' implies that levels of African-Caribbean crime are massively high because - like rap music and curried goat - it is somehow part of their culture and nature.

And for that reason, Liddle is a tw@t.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I think this letter from the independant yesterday says it best:

" I suspect it may well be true that a disproportionate amount of violent crime is committed by young black men, so Rod Liddle may be wondering why he is being accused of racism when he is simply reporting what is true.

The racism, of course, lies in selecting and highlighting this variable ahead of all the other variables which apply to those engaged in crime of this sort. For example, they tend to be male and grossly under-educated; their fathers are generally absent or involved in violence; they are no longer involved in organised sport, or religion.

They have none of the skills necessary these days to get legitimate employment, which means they are more likely to derive feelings of belonging and security from gang membership; they are almost certainly not involved in any conventional creative or artistic activity; and, perhaps, most important of all, they will have internalised the market's message that, since you are what you own, you should go out and get it and not let anyone stand in your way.

If Liddle were able to think just a little more divergently, he would realise that the serious problem of violent crime has much more to do with gender, class, education and the pernicious effects of the market than with ethnicity. It is a symptom of political, cultural and moral malaise ? just like our fascination for simplistic sound-bites."

[Brendan]

Fucking hell does it really need that much pulling apart to realise what he is doing and why it is objectionable?

Surely people can differentiate between someone addressing a point rationally and fairly without mean intention and an insulting rant intended to offend.

Although perhaps people can?t anymore because of the proliferation of self-righteous cunts who seem to be favoured as commentators in the media over those who posses characteristics like gentleman(woman)liness and intellect.

[Huguenot]

I see your point Brendan, but that are those of a dinner party persuasion peddling pseudo-scientific justifications for prejudice who are more likely to be swayed by the critique that SMG's correspondent does.

We've heard the argument on this forum (many times) that correlation doesn't signify causation, but for some slow-witted aspirational middle classes it does.

Perhaps the SMG quote is the reassurance they need - that by trumpeting their prejudices they subvert their own social ascendancy.

Your skin colour has no impact on your beliefs or persuasions.

[silverfox]

Sorry Huguenot, what is your point here?

[Huguenot]

It may have been Brendan's point that SMG's quoted letter was "too much pulling apart".

I was observing that sometimes a little pulling apart goes a long way ;-)

Edited to reassure that I'm amongst the dinner party classes myself. It would nevertheless be a cold day in hell that someone argued at my table that disproportionate representation of criminal elements in ethnic minorities meant you could judge a person's criminality by his/her skin colour.

[HAL9000]

Rod Liddle's Spectator blog first to be censured by PCC