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messageGoose Green Dog Poo -
Posted by KidKruger July 12, 10:45AM

I am reluctantly raising this on the forum, hoping that some of those who walk dogs on Goose Green will read it - or itíll be brought to their attention by people they know who read this.
For the last couple of weeks, when out with my hound, Iíve been picking up dog poo created by other peoples dogs, as well as my own.
At first, I just picked up the odd rogue poo. But then I decided to pick up all rogue poos. This proved basically impossible because youíd never get home ! A limit was needed, so I set it at a manageable 3 rogue poos per day.
So, the last 2 weeks Iíve picked-up 3 x rogue poos per day.
Thatís 42 rogue poos in 2 weeks, I could have picked-up twice that amount.
I know I havenít picked them all up, thereís still plenty left to stick to park users and kids.
My point is that Goose Green is a dog toilet that isnít being flushed, itís disgusting.

Dog walkers should be picking up, every time they take their dog to any park. Basic responsibility.
Why is this happening ?
Some obvious reasons Iím witnessing:
1. Chatting to other dog walkers.
2. Constantly loking at phone. For some walkers the dog Ďwalkí is just phone-time in the park.
Both are distractions from responsibility to watch for their dog messing.
For me, 1 & 2 above, are not a good enough excuse.

If you have a dog on Goose Green and you havenít picked-up after it on a particular visit, ASK YOURSELF WHY this is.
Dogs in a park routine usually poo when they get to the park, not the odd day by chance.
Take some ownership and show some respect to other park users and the responsible dog walkers who you are giving a bad name.
I wouldnít blame Southwark for banning dogs from Goose Green, in fact surely itís only a matter of time ?
This level of fouling is a clear health issue.

I probably havenít been very succinct above but hopefully the message is coming through - SORT YOUR SHIT OUT !

messageRe: Goose Green Dog Poo -
Posted by Pugwash July 12, 08:01PM

We have Road Watch - should we have Poo Watch - high vis wearers from police/council/local residents doing a couple of hour on Goose Green targeting owners who do not pick up. Is it a on the spot fine they can occur? -

messageRe: Goose Green Dog Poo -
Posted by Angelina July 12, 10:28PM

All the people i have met (i'm there every day) walking their dogs are doing just that...playing and spending time rogather. I would put my money on the culprits being multi-dog-walkers, who i've only ever seen on their phones and ignoring the dogs they ate paid to watch.

messageRe: Goose Green Dog Poo -
Posted by Passiflora July 13, 12:00AM

I remember going to the Goose Green Summer Fair around 7/8 years ago, could be more years than that, but there was a lot of dog poo in evidence then. Even now when I go past Goose Green on the 37 bus I just see it as the dog walking area.

messageRe: Goose Green Dog Poo -
Posted by KidKruger July 13, 12:36AM

I think saying itís multi-dog walkers is an easy answer. The perpetual scapegoat, in any park.
Only this week Iíve seen lone dog walkers not seeing their dogs depositing nice dog eggs for kids to slip on.
One person I spoke to to point out where their dog had curled one out.
I use the park (as do my children) without the dog and from that perspective Goose Green is basically a dog toilet.
If youíre not constantly watching your dog when off lead itís probably leaving itís mess (as dogs do) for someone else to walk into their house.

messageRe: Goose Green Dog Poo -
Posted by Upwind July 13, 01:40AM

For Goose Green, read pretty much every other park in the area too. Most of it is simply down to people not paying attention to what their dogs are doing.

messageRe: Goose Green Dog Poo -
Posted by first mate July 13, 07:42AM

None of us want to, but perhaps the easiest solution would be if the majority of responsible owners pick up a few other deposits when out with their own dog? It does let the anti social brigade off the hook but these personality types are not likely to change and perhaps others doing the 'dirty' work is the simplest option. I only say because otherwise all dog owners risk being banned, we also risk playing into a scenario where PSPO monitoring is parceled out to private policing companies.

messageRe: Goose Green Dog Poo -
Posted by KidKruger July 13, 09:47AM

First mate thatís a reasonable suggestion.
Thing is, I think the rogue poos are from (normally) responsible dog owners who are just to Ďbusyí to notice their dogsí efforts at the time it happens - and other days they may well notice (and pick-up).
Iím not saying the culprits are nasty people, itís a vigilance issue. In the past Iíve pointed out to owners who are great dog owners (I see them regularly) but theyíre just missed the event at the time. It takes seconds for a dog to unload BUT owners know their dogsí behaviours and routine so should be ready.
Itís got to the state on GG where Iíd support a ban on dogs on GG, which would inconvenience me a bit but we all have to make sacrifices for the greater good. Itís not OK to foul a public space, the outcomes of fouling for individual victims are disgusting, having to clean yourself, your kids, your clothes, your car, your house and the persistent stench of dog mess for days afterwards.
I picked up two Ďextrasí yesterday, would have done more but ran out of doggy bags. One of them was MASSIVE, it took two bags to remove it, this was from a large-bodied dog, only the smell indicated it was not human it was that big.
This is not a new issue, itís been years.


Iíd be interested on this thread about views of non-dog owners, because this needs addressing and soon, perhaps collectively a petition is needed to end the dog era on GG ?

messageRe: Goose Green Dog Poo -
Posted by Tykeinexile July 14, 10:05AM

I'm all for an outright ban on dogs in Goose Green the evidence suggests that dog walkers whoeve they may be, whatever their reason for being on the green are making the Green an unsafe place for people to walk or play especially young children. If that's not possible maybe it ought to become the official doggy toilet for the area. It's already referred to by some as Dog Shit Green

messageRe: Goose Green Dog Poo -
Posted by first mate July 14, 10:40AM

Possibly the time has come for responsible dog owners to sort this and start to be proactive, not only in picking up after their own dog but those of others. If you see an owner not paying attention then flag it up. Carry spare bags.

I would hate to see a dog ban on the Green because it might start the ball rolling for outright bans in other areas too and that would impact massively on dog owners and their dogs. I have always loved how dog friendly ED is, let's not lose that privilege!

On a separate note, I never cease to be amazed at how laissez faire everyone is about broken bottles and glass, both on pavements and in the park. Okay not as revolting and does not present the same potential health risks, but there are risks nonetheless.

Before anyone jumps on me, I am not in any way excusing dog poo, it is disgusting and needs sorting. However, I personally find the broken glass issue to be a real problem and it has also got worse- in my experience at least.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was july 14, 10:42am by first mate.

messageRe: Goose Green Dog Poo -
Posted by KidKruger July 14, 01:30PM

Letís keep this thread on dog owners abusing their privilege.
Litter, speeding, assaults and building noise can be discussed somewhere else (and is a distraction from the OP).

The priority here is dog fouling on GG, not dog owners.

If we lose the right to walk dogs in GG and any other parks then fair enough - if we canít collectively meet our obligations then we fail the community and lose the right, simples (and reasonable, no?).
If I continue picking up 20+ dog poos per week (as well as those from my own hound) I will raise with the council myself.

Itís simply not on and dog owners have been taking advantage far too long IMO.

messageRe: Goose Green Dog Poo -
Posted by Angelina July 14, 06:28PM

I would rather support a ban on multi dog walkers, same as Dulwich Woods, than a ban on all dog owners.

If you actually watch the dog walkers, they are not watching the dogs at all, whereas people with family dogs do

messageRe: Goose Green Dog Poo -
Posted by KidKruger July 14, 07:51PM

Iíd disagree with that summary Angelina, but my view is only based on the last 3 years - dog owners are the main cause in my experience.
Of course that doesnít mean multi-dog walkers are completely innocent (theyíre just not the main cause IMO).
I regularly see lone dog walkers, or dog walkers with other dog walkers chatting, leaving the dog to lay itís doggy eggs for us all to tread in.
Anyone can accidentally miss the odd poo I guess, but thatís not a good enough excuse for park users overall - especially when they have to clean themselves and their home afterwards.
Fact is, regular dog owners havenít paid enough attention and the park is a toilet.
I again picked up two today (besides my dogís).

messageRe: Goose Green Dog Poo -
Posted by Lynne July 14, 08:36PM

It's always been bad. I've got a very small garden, like many of the local houses, and I would have loved my children to be able to play on GG when they were younger. But not when it was just a dog's toilet.

messageRe: Goose Green Dog Poo -
Posted by Angelina July 15, 08:37AM

I suggest that the community of dog walkers are alerted to the problem by putting up posters and asking for their help in keeping the green clean.

messageRe: Goose Green Dog Poo -
Posted by first mate July 15, 09:26AM

Good idea

messageRe: Goose Green Dog Poo -
Posted by rch July 15, 09:45AM

As a result of reading this thread, I spoke to one of the council's Park Wardens when I saw him in Dulwich Park yesterday... they can issue fines if they witness an owner not picking up dog poo in Goose Green, but there are only six Park Wardens operating across the borough now.

I suggested that maybe he could patrol Goose Green in the afternoons during the summer when more people/children are using the park, as this will increase awareness/visibility if nothing else. Otherwise we can suggest a more suitable time based on when the most dog owners attend?

I saw a box of dog poo bags in the foyer of the Francis Peek Centre in Dulwich Park, so I'm not sure if we can request high visibility free bags and poo bins with signs for Goose Green? Or maybe apply for CGS funds for more specific park maintenance for Goose Green?

I understand that dogs are banned from the Children's Playground in Goose Green, but I'm not sure that there is legislation or enforcement resources that would support banning dogs from the whole green.

But this issue is something that would be helpful for the community to stick together on, as we don't have much green space in the immediate Lordship area - Dulwich Park is too far away in one direction and Peckham Rye Park is too far in another direction for residents without cars.

I think there used to be a Friends of Goose Green volunteer group?

--------------------
Robin
Twitter: @ex_cllr_rch

messageRe: Goose Green Dog Poo -
Posted by Penguin68 July 15, 10:05AM

I suggested that maybe he could patrol Goose Green in the afternoons during the summer when more people/children are using the park,

If professional dog walkers are the issue, as suggested above, then patrolling when they are about (often in my experience of other green areas in ED in the mid mornings) might be more effective. I'd guess they were more likely to ignore the common decencies of picking up poo when fewer people were about. The issue is more picking up the poo in the first place, not warning those with children to avoid it. Patrolling when they can be seen by the Goose Green using public might be good for their profile, but less likely to catch the miscreants, in my view.

messageRe: Goose Green Dog Poo -
Posted by rch July 15, 10:49AM

I hear what you're saying and agree, Penguin, but seeing the Park Warden yesterday was spontaneous, so I just wanted to make him aware of the GG problems in the first instance with a view towards setting more accurate timings later on (as no one had mentioned specific timings on this thread). I wasn't even sure that we still HAD Park Wardens anymore, so my hope is that raising awareness and giving park users a chance to directly speak to them would be a good start, rather than information just coming from me.

I also discovered that there is an extra "roaming" Park Warden, so I was hoping that we could lobby to get two daily patrols in the short term. But we also need to lobby for better park maintenance funding, i.e. clean up crews, so a Park Warden's observations could support that as well.

Will suggest mid-morning patrols if I can get my hands on someone but two patrols per day at varying times might be good to start with?

If anyone sees a Park Warden wearing a red jacket can you speak to them and let us know??

messageRe: Goose Green Dog Poo -
Posted by Nigello July 15, 10:55AM

When I have walked a friend's dog I often picked up poo left by other dogs. I am sure that one dog left a deposit daily because they were all the same size! It is just lazy or asocial people to blame, not the dogs, and seeing as the council cannot be there at all times, the next best thing is to pick up the poo even if it is not from your own pooch!

messageRe: Goose Green Dog Poo -
Posted by Sue July 15, 11:05AM

rch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
we
> don't have much green space in the immediate
> Lordship area - Dulwich Park is too far away in
> one direction and Peckham Rye Park is too far in
> another direction for residents without cars.
>


Surely Peckham Rye Park is only a five minute walk from Goose Green (or ten if you are walking very slowly?)

messageRe: Goose Green Dog Poo -
Posted by rch July 15, 11:18AM

It depends on where you live, Sue... it takes me 10-15 minutes to get to GG and then another 10-15 minutes to get to Peckham Rye, which can be up to an hour round trip, hence I hardly ever go to Peckham Rye. The 37 bus service is so pointless, it's often quicker to walk. It takes approx half an hour to 45 mins to walk to Dulwich Park in the other direction.

Nigello... in my experience it needs a combination of efforts to address the problem. I've seen regular poo owners begin to pick up poo after being spoken to. But unfortunately resources are so limited that it will probably be up to residents and park users to form a an Anti-Dog Poo Alliance...

messageRe: Goose Green Dog Poo -
Posted by seenbeen July 15, 12:26PM

selfish people will turn a blind eye as their dog defecates on the grass/pavement. These 'people' are irresponsible and will not change. Collect up the dog poo- follow them home and put it on their front door step....and if you have a child in nappies you could add their offerings too

messageRe: Goose Green Dog Poo -
Posted by first mate July 15, 02:40PM

Rch,

Yes, I think it does need a conscious, community- minded push where those who forget to pick up are reminded by others. No bad thing to apply this to litter in general. I am genuinely appalled by the amount of broken glass everywhere. Just about every park visit I have found a piece..where is it all coming from? Should there be a ban on taking glass items into the park?

messageRe: Goose Green Dog Poo -
Posted by Pugwash July 15, 04:00PM

I may be wrong but was a section of GG fenced off just for dogs? This must have been a few years ago when they renewed the railings.

messageRe: Goose Green Dog Poo -
Posted by first mate July 15, 04:21PM

Yes it was but some, myself included, thought it looked pretty ugly. I hope we can have a really proper go at rallying support and effort among dog owners to make a big change. There has not been any sort of campaign or real intervention before and perhaps Some funding could go towards this. Before fencing off areas and taking out wholesale bans we should have a go at galvanising owners to be much more vigilant around their own behaviour as well as other people

messageRe: Goose Green Dog Poo -
Posted by rch July 15, 05:33PM

Yes, I vaguely remember dogs being restricted to a small fenced off section of GG, but I suspect that this couldn't be enforced in the long run.

Goose Green has long been part of South Camberwell ward (which is now Champion Hill ward), but now that the ward boundaries have all changed, it's now in East Dulwich/Goose Green ward.

But I think that first mate and Penguin are right... the community is going to have to start sticking together and working together more actively on a LOT of things. Goose Green dog poo is as good a start as anything...

Let's keep posting updates.

--------------------
Robin
Twitter: @ex_cllr_rch

messageRe: Goose Green Dog Poo -
Posted by Lynne July 16, 11:37AM

There was some info. about the local council not empowered to fence part of it off, (thus wasting lots of money on railings,) as permission was needed from central gov.
I may be wrong, but I think that's what we were told at the time. It was great while it lasted. People were actually sitting on the grass.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was july 16, 11:38am by Lynne.

messageRe: Goose Green Dog Poo -
Posted by Upwind July 17, 02:54AM

Penguin68 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I suggested that maybe he could patrol Goose Green
> in the afternoons during the summer when more
> people/children are using the park,
>
> If professional dog walkers are the issue, as
> suggested above, then patrolling when they are
> about (often in my experience of other green areas
> in ED in the mid mornings) might be more
> effective. I'd guess they were more likely to
> ignore the common decencies of picking up poo when
> fewer people were about. The issue is more picking
> up the poo in the first place, not warning those
> with children to avoid it. Patrolling when they
> can be seen by the Goose Green using public might
> be good for their profile, but less likely to
> catch the miscreants, in my view.

The suggestion by the OP was that it was individual dog owners not paying attention rather than anyone else. Not sure there are many, if any, people walking large groups of dogs on the green anyway.

PS. The people walking several dogs for money are very seldom professional, in that they have no qualification for their trade. I believe they should be referred to as commercial walkers.

messageRe: Goose Green Dog Poo -
Posted by KidKruger July 17, 08:34AM

Yes that was my original suggestion Upwind, and I still hold that view.
Picked-up 3x rogue poos on Monday and 7x yesterday.
Steaming dog toilet right through the summer.

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