Saffron

Swaddling didn't work with our daughter, but she did like the Amby Hammock. They are expensive new, though have good resale value. xx

ClareC Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The BCG is only given as standard in certain > areas, London being pretty much it. As a result of > the comprehensive BCG vaccination programme, TB > was pretty much irradicated in this country. That's not 100% the case. Comprehensive BCG is not completely responsibly for the reduction of TB in Britain. The drop in TB was in very great part due to an extensive and targeted TB program including better identification of TB suffers, better treatment, and in very large part a thorough effort to improve poor living standards and conditions (a major means of transmission) among high-risk populations. In addition, although there is a tendency for increased rates of TB in immigrant populations in Britain, a significant portion of these immigrants contracted it after moving here, i.e. they did not bring the disease with them. The reason immigrant populations such as these are at risk is overwhelming due to poor living conditions. Indeed the BCG alone is not fantastically effective at controlling the incidence of new TB cases, with about 12,000 immunisations needed to prevent just one new case of TB. Don't get me wrong, the BCG is not a bad thing. We didn't give it to Little Saff for the reasons I stated in my previous posting, but I'm not against the BCG in general. However, I do think that people should really know and understand its value and its limitations when actively making the choice for or against immunising their child.

minder Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I would have thought any vaccine that protects > against TB in your children would be a good thing. > Even if afterwards the injection site does > require antibiotics. This issue of giving systemic antibiotics to infants is itself a contentious one, for the damage they can do to intestinal fauna, the long term outcome of which is not entirely known. xx

I had also heard from a friend that there was something for children from 2.5 years. When I looked into it, I think she was confusing the 15 free hours with child/working tax credit, which you can take earlier if eligible. If there really IS something for the 2.5 yos, I'd LOVE to know about it!!!

Being a Londoner does not necessarily put you in a high-risk group. Not all of London is high-risk. However, there are specific areas and populations w/in London that are at an increased risk of exposure. Also, having had the BCG immunisation in infancy does not necessarily mean that you carry the immmunity into adulthood. Depending mostly on your genetic background, you can carry 15-90% immunity from the BCG. (Also depending on genetics, some populations will have more natural resistance or less to TB.) So even if you (or your child) had the BCG immunisation, you can still get TB as an adult. If you develop TB symptoms after being exposed to a high-risk population, you should always be tested for TB. Early treatment is crucial. That being said, I totally agree that there is a very personal element to the decision to give the BCG or not. It's not just a straightforward choice for everyone. VanessaPMR, I think anyone with your history would absolutely make the same choice. When making this decision, parents need to know that facts, weigh them up, and make whatever decision let's them sleep best at night. Like so many things with raising children, there isn't really a right or wrong answer. xx

We didn't do the BCG for several reasons. We weren't exposed to any high-risk groups for tuberculosis with our daughter. And for me personally, I felt the efficacy of the vaccine (60-80%) was low compared to the risk of severe infection at the site of injection requiring antibiotics. Also, the BCG is not effective against latent TB, and is not considered highly efficacious in adults. It does protect against miliary TB/TB menigitis which is a neonatal health issue (a reason it's now only offered to the under 1s on the NHS), but we weren't at risk of this. You can find some basic and very good info on wiki.

z\What did you use to drown out external noise? If it was music, and the problem really is some kind of hypersensitivity, then adding music on top might not help (seems like it might have even made it worse). White noise would be better. White noise doesn't drown out other noise b/c it doesn't "compete" with other noise. It works more by "cancelling" other noise. (Sorry, I don't know the techinical terms, must ask Hubby.) I've also read that for people with Aspergers or sensory processing disorders, brown noise (similar to white, but lower frequency) is more helpful. While I've seen white noise machines for sale in several different places, I've never seen a brown noise machine. I have no idea where one gets this sort of thing. Finally -- and I do admit this is very unlikely but thought I'd mention it as it's interesting -- symptoms could also be synethsia, a perceptual peculiarity where the senses are mixed, eg seeing colours or smelling sounds. Synethsia is on an a wide continuum, and is now known to be not uncommon. Indeed, when tested many people were shown to have very mild forms of synesthsia of which they themselves were unaware b/c the circumstances needed to disclose them were very specific. I only discovered by chance a few years ago that I have a mild synethsia. In a darkened room, when a lamp is dimmed, I experience this as a corresponding decrease in the volume of anything in the room (eg TV, conversation, etc). For me it's a simple annoyance, I can't dim the lamp and listen to a quiet conversation at the same time. For a child experiencing synesthsia, it might be confusing and upsetting, especially if there have been a lot of other recent changes in the child's life.

Yes, the enamel itself is porous and can become dehydrated (from my SIL who is a dental surgeon). But also as you say above, dehydration of the body in general can lessen saliva flow, leading to high oral acidity which damages teeth in many ways.

Never heard that about teeth being marked by physical damage. Very interesting. It happens to fingernails, so of course why not teeth? Also, some marks on teeth can be temporary and are caused by dehydration of the enamel. I think the main culprit is whitening agents, so switch to a 'gentler' toothpaste w/o these for a while to see if it makes a difference. Not sure, but I think an acidic diet (e.g. lots of fruit juice/tea/coffee) can dehydrate enamel too.

White noise machine or soft music CD any good? Something he can press the buttons on himself to give him more control over his environment? Have him turn on the machine/CD himself, then place out of reach when you leave the room? Two is a difficult age (for him and you!), and he's had so many changes recently. Perhaps he's seeking your reassurance as a way to normalise all the recent changes. In this case, giving him some more control over his environment might be just the ticket. xx

On behalf of msjennym and myself, thanks to everyone who came on Saturday, and thanks so much to msjennym for hosting! To those who wanted to come but couldn't make the date, sorry we missed you-- stay tuned to the Forum for future playdates. Hope to see you all then. Happy Holidays :)

Interesting that this thread has come up again. We've been having toothpaste woes here too, but of a slightly different kind. I have a sensitivity to the surfactants sodium lauryl sulphate (SLS) and sodium lareth sulphate (SLeS), especially in toothpaste where it gives me mouth ulcers. I always buy adult toothpaste for myself w/o SLS/SLeS. I recently ran out, and I just used Little Saff's toddler toothpaste for a week thinking I would be fine. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. I came out in a hideously painful round of mouth ulcers that lasted for 2 weeks. On that note, I decided Little Saff shouldn't have SLS/SLeS in her toothpaste either. The only children's toothpaste I could find that did not contain SLS/SLeS was Sensodyne ProNamel. I bought the ProNamel adult for me, and the ProNamel children's toothpaste for her. On comparing the flavour, we both like hers better! On comparing the ingrdients, both have 1450ppm fluoride. However, the children's toothpaste has less ingredients. The adult toothpaste has potassium nitriate (to reduce sensitivity in adult teeth) and sodium saccharin (a sweeetener). Whereas, the children's toothpaste has neither, but contains instead the sweetener sucralose. So it would appear that the Great Toothpaste Debate doesn't simply end with fluoride. We may need to consider what other ingredients are in our toothpastes. For now I'm sticking with the chilren's ProNamel for Little Saff. Mindful of the fact that it has 1450ppm fluoride, we'll only use a smear (as the package suggests for toddlers), balanced with the fact that we only get her teeth successfully brushed about once a week anyway (oh dear!).

For categorisation of risk in multiparous women, I think attrition must also play a role. If a mother had a very poor outcome from her first labour and delivery, then it's possible that she will choose not to have more childen, or that if she does, she will choose a planned C-section (which was not included in this study for obvious reasons).

new mother Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Well, DG, readers of this thread can draw their > own conclusions. > > All I can report is personal experience and what I > have observed with friends. For us, and perhaps > many others who I have never met, the downside > risks of major problems for the baby, in > pregnancies that looked textbook all along > (critical point!), are more concerning than any > marginal benefits that may or may not exist from a > pv delivery. The benefits of vaginal birth to the baby are neither non-existent nor marginal, as your opinion suggests. This is not my opinion which I'm trying to pass as fact. This is actual research which is out there in peer-reviewed journals. Although an elective C-section birth may not be detrimental to the baby in an immediate sense, neither is it beneficial in the immediate or the long-run. (Medically necessary C-secs are another story altogether of course, and a true medical wonder for the babies' lives they save.)

Ruth_Baldock Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > My sons birth was a spectacuarly doomed to fail > homebirth, and lie the psychologically healthy > person I am, I refuse to talk or think about it, > full stop. Yet again this goes to the problem of inadequate postpartum care. A friend in Oxford was attended by midwives where the clinic's policy was to send a midwife back to the home of the mother around 7 months postpartum. Together they discussed the birth plan, the outcome, and the mother's feelings about any differences between the two. They talked about the reasons for the differences, and whether in restrospect the mother and midwife felt they were needed or helpful. It was an opportunity for the mother give the clinic some feedback, and for the midwife to pick up on issues such as postpartum depression, PTSD, or any postpartum physical problems. Surely all midwifery practices would benefit from doing this? And patients would benefit too.

new mother Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Saffron, errr, because the risks to the baby of a > birth pv vastly outweigh the marinal benefits of > things like forcing out mucus etc. No, I mean b/c the colonization of the neonate by the mother's bacteria is thought to be integral to the adaptive function of the baby's lifelong immunity including gut colonization. This can't be replicated through c-section. (And for the record, I'm not opposed to a woman's right to choose, but she should be clearly informed when she does so.)

new mother Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I am just thrilled that I had no pain, healthy > bouncing babies and intervention of a type that > was monitored and calm as opposed to a panicked > emergency scenario. That all sounds lovely but... > Every time I read threads like > this I so wish elective sections were more used in > the uk. > ...what about the benefits to the baby from a vaginal birth?

ClaireClaire Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The version I use comes from Richard Ferber's book > called "Solve your child's sleep problems", which > I cannot recommend highly enough. > Ferber is a variation on Dr Christopher's Greens original research, very similar to what Dr Green tested clinically. You describe it very well ClaireClaire. xx We tried a similar variation (when I was a crazy person at my wit's end) and totally failed. Not b/c I couldn't follow the program, but b/c we noticed Little Saff developing HORRIBLE daytime associations with sleep, where she would burst in to unstoppable tears at any mention of night-night, or seeing anyone else yawning or putting teddies in bed. We decided this wasn't for us, and we went back to co-sleeping. We also used some of the techniques from the fade-type behavioural modification (from The Good Sleep Guide, I think?), and had a little better success with these, but it took a very long time. Hope things get better for you soon, rahrahrah. xx

Wow, Pickle, that is really distressing to hear that someone with ostetric cholestasis would EVER be told that induction/hospital environment would be the wrong decision. The fact that you managed to have a natural birth following your induction is a very heartening story, especially as you didn't receive support for this decision from your NCT teacher. I'm also a little surprised that NCT classes are so non-homogenous. It seems that different teachers are offering vastly different points of view, and possily touting opinion as fact. Our experience (with NCT in ED) couldn't have been more different. My husand and I attended NCT classes where the teacher gave us the facts about different birth scenarios and helped us understand the data for ourselves. I felt like this was the ideal class, and I can't understand why other sessions aren't run in this manners. On a completely different topic now, reading many of the posts on this thread. One common element, regardless of birth scenario, is an obvious lack of follow-up care postpartum, immediately following the birth and in the months afterwards. I felt this too. In particular, I think there should be a national timeline for assessing women postpartum at given intervals up to a year-and-a-half, with it being the woman's option not to go if all is 100% well. As it is, the midwives check the baby a few times, and if there don't appear to be any issues, then mother is signed over back to the GP/HV. A lot of GP/HVs actually have NO CLUE about serious postpartum issues for the women, and many women don't seek treatment because they don't know who to ask. Should there be a "red book" style checklist for mothers too, regardless of birth scenario?

I had my wedding reception at theDulwich Woodhouse 2 yrs ago in Jan. Not sure how arrangements are now, but at that time, they were one of the only large-ish venues not charging a reception fee. Also I was able to negotiate with management to get a good price on champagne. They didn't mind everyone's kids running around indoors, and they have plenty of outdoor space too.

Otta Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I can't for the life of me imagine why a woman > would want her father there! My friend had her son very young, in her late teens. Her mother had been absent from the family for some time. Her boyfriend did a runner when he found out she was pregnant. She was (and is) very close to her father, so he was the natural choice for her birthing partner! :)

Ah, Ruth, I was just about to write something similar re offering constructive advice! I'm going to hazzard a guess that no one really meant to upset anyone else, least of all the OP, but sleep (or lack thereof!) is a very emotive issue, no? I'm not a fan of controlled crying or cry-it-out methods, but I do know that they work for some people. I think everyone would agree these methods are far from ideal. We'd all love our babes to fall peacefully asleep with a smile on their little faces after just one round of kiss and cuddle night-night, and to stay that way all night. That's simply not a reality for many babies and even older children too. Sometimes parents need to explore a lot of different sleep solutions, and for some people this will include cc styled solutions. Before you use cc or cio methods you should really know what they are. CIO was the old method formerly advocated for getting Baby to sleep by putting her down and not going back AT ALL (unless Baby got into serious difficulty, ie vomitting). Dr Christopher Green designed CC as similar but better method. CC involves going in to comfort Baby at specific intervals of increasing time, and soothing Baby a little, and leaving the room while Baby is still awake. This method is very specific and was tested on infants as young as 6 mo. At 6 months old, it was concluded that parents would need to follow a rigorous program of CC for about 2 weeks before they could expect results. And this method was not to be used with children that are ill in any way. However, Dr Christopher Green himself now admits that his methods may not nec best for Baby, and that we should be more patient with Baby and ourselves. http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?29,747477,749965#msg-749965 Indeed as was mentioned above, newer research has confirmed that prolonged bouts of Baby crying alone do lead to high levels of cortisol in Baby, which is undesireable for many reasons, not least of which is that this supresses immunity leading to more illness and less rest for Baby. However, if you've ruled out illness (and I can't stress strongly enough how much I think you need to see a sympathetic GP!!), and explored all the other options (Fuschia, littleEDfamily, and alieh have given some good suggestions above), then rahrahrah I would suggest that you read Dr Christopher Green's method, b/c going in to comfort Baby 'every 30 min or so' isn't really cc or cio. (I'm not a huge fan, but do have his book to lend if you want.) I would also suggest that you hire an experienced night nanny and/or a child sleep consultant b/c not following sleep training methodology to the letter can make sleep worse. I know that others on this Forum have used such services, so perhaps you can get some recommendations here? Best of luck. xx

Hello all you lovely parents of 'only children'! :) Don't forget the next playdate for the Only Child playgroup is tomorrow Sat 3rd Dec, 2-5pm at msjennym's house. PM me or msjennym for address and more info. See you there!! xxx

It would be nice if there were (more) ways to give birth in a hospital environment without the birth becoming necessarily medicalised. When I lived in Switerland, I noted that birthing centres directly attached to hospitals seemed popular. You and your family/friends could stay at the birthing centre basically from the first twinge of labour until the birth and beyond if needed, with hospital facilities literally walking distance from your unit. It's like a home away from home. In addition to labours being overly medicalised, another problem with hospital births is women getting turned away b/c staff think labour is not established, and a bed can't be spared for the woman. My friend was turned away from the hospital 3 times in 3 hours b/c they didn't think her labour was estblished. She eventually gave birth on her hands and knees on the floor behind a curtain in triage, and the midwife barely made it in time. It also needs mentioning that an elective C-section is certainly not without its risks, to both the mother and the baby. It's not the easy or safe option the media often hypes it as. When you weigh up the risks as you understand them, you have to believe that you make the best decision for you and your baby at the time, and try not to blame yourself for the outcome one way or another. xx

We had a similar problem, I think. The lactation consultant identified that the problem was not tongue-tie, but rather it was that Little Saff had a high palate and short tongue. This is a variation on normal, which unfortunately can cause some problems for breastfeeding. If that is the case for you, the good news is that newborns do out grow this as the head/mouth grow very quickly. Jill Dye (07816 136 477) was the private lactation consultant we saw, as recommended through the Forum. She has many years of experience helping mothers and babies with a variety of bfing issues. Hope things get better for you soon. xx