EDAus

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Ashbourne Grove has become the driveway to Melbourne Grove South, we have had an increase in traffic, speeding and pollution - all the multiple cars, vans and delivery trucks. The residents of Ashbourne Grove were promised our views and concerns would be considered when the proposals were reviewed, this seemed fair as we were the ones adversely affected. What happened? When Councillor Rose visited Melbourne Grove South she was taken into a pro-barrier house and other residents were stopped from approaching her ? how is this is fair and transparent? Low traffic neighbourhoods do work but not the way they are being implemented in East Dulwich. If Melbourne Grove South want their barrier and the council are serious about climate change and active travel, they need to remove all the parking between Tell and Ashbourne Grove. That section of road should be reclaimed and made into a bike shed and a community garden with a bike track through it. Strangely that option has been soundly rejected by the ?local? residents every time it has been raised.

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Ashbourne Grove is now a 'rat run' for the residents, businesses, visitors of Melbourne Grove (South) and roads leading off it. They are joining Lordship lane via Ashbourne Grove to avoid the traffic lights outside M&S and / or the set between the Harris school and William Rose Butchers - if traffic was directed to exit via Melbourne Grove South at the Lordship Lane end. The same cars and work vans evidenced driving up and down Ashbourne Grove during the day, can be found parked on Melbourne Grove South overnight. Residents can call for the 1) closure of all the junctions leading onto Melbourne Grove South, except for the junction with Lordship lane or 2) making all the streets on-way leading from Lordship Lane to Melbourne Grove South In terms of dangerous driving and near misses please report them to 101: https://www.met.police.uk/ro/report/ocr/af/how-to-report-a-crime/ and the council https://eastdulwichstreetspace.commonplace.is/ If the council implemented additional double yellow lines on Melbourne Grove South, safer turning could be achieved and there would be less reversing into traffic.

More noise, distraction and unsubstantiated allegations. The real issues here are: 1) Emergency services should have been consulted on the changes, we have evidence they have not been and we have provided it to the proper authorities. 2) Real concerns have been raised about the ability of emergency services to respond to incidents, in a timely manner to protect the wider local community. More than one person can be involved in correspondence it is not rocket science. I concentrated my time and ability on raising concerns rather than ?picking apart? posts on the EDF. I know which will be of more benefit to me personally and the community others can form their own judgements.

Since we are asking questions. northernmonkey do you live on Melbourne Grove? A search of your posts on the EDF suggests this could be a possibility. Are you one of the local residents who pushed for this proposal with local councillors? People could have: 1) Emailed the same organisations to check the details there are only three and they all have on-line easy to use systems. 2) Contacted Southwark to confirm or deny the position, or 3) Got on EDF and seeking to shut down anyone who raises concerns with the current approach. Who benefits the most from approach 3? We have the evidence, it has been submitted with our complaints, the appropriate bodies will deal with the issues. Hysteria is a word which has been thrown at people largely women over the course of history whenever they seek to challenge the status quo.

Your point? You made several unsubstantiated statements and assumptions, I corrected them. What really is the point here? Or is the real point of all these sudden posts to drown out alternative viewpoints, to shut down debate and to wear down any form of objection until the loudest voices are heard yet again.

You win, you ?outed me? I am an undercover government agent living in ED??? I did not say they 'called me'. Seriously as much fun as this is, there is no mystery in a previous post I recommended people approach the emergency services with any concerns or issues they had. We did that and they responded.

Once again a steady stream of unsubstantiated statements................ Before commenting it would help to read the wording of posts, we were contacted by 'one emergency services body'. Are you only allowed one ground of objection - is that rule for everyone or just me? Feeling special now.

Agree first mate it is a major concern, I don't want to be unfair to the service thus I will not be publishing details or names. It has formed evidence in concerns we have raised with the Local Government Ombudsman, Opposition Party in Southwark, Funding providers (TFL, Mayor), Helen Hayes MP and the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

Please provide the evidence for your statement 'Will be so much better for all the roads off Melbourne when it does.' I am looking forward to reading this while we are blighted by increasing traffic, fumes and speeding. Many of these cars / vans are coming from Melbourne Grove and roads leading off it, residents on Melbourne Grove South have admitted on social media they will use our road to enter and exit their own road. bels123 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > EDAus Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > We knew the barrier had been installed as the > > traffic on Ashbourne Grove has increased > already > > with cars / vans from Melbourne Grove to > Lordship > > Lane in particular, a number speeding. > > > > In the 10 minutes we visited we saw over three > > cars approach the barrier and turn down Tell > > Grove, a small narrow road which is not > equipped > > for this high volume of traffic. > > > Of course it will take some time for drivers to > figure out it?s no longer a shortcut. This is to > be expected (especially on day 1!) and it?s > reasonable to expect it to take awhile to settle > down. Will be so much better for all the roads off > Melbourne when it does. Give it a month or so.

We knew the barrier had been installed as the traffic on Ashbourne Grove has increased already with cars / vans from Melbourne Grove to Lordship Lane in particular, a number speeding. It is interesting to note double yellow lines have only been installed on one side of Melbourne Grove South which would not allow for a truck or anything bigger than a car to turn. In the 10 minutes we visited we saw over three cars approach the barrier and turn down Tell Grove, a small narrow road which is not equipped for this high volume of traffic. We have also been contacted by one of the emergency services as they have not been contacted / consulted on in relation to the closure, they requested additional information. I am concerned the road closure will lead to poorer outcomes for emergencies.

Tas - Yes I am aware, one side is kept closed for safeguarding purposes. One entrance and one exit. 'I cannot think of a single car journey through the area that would be increased by more than 1 minute as a result of this closure.' Others might be able to think of some and have a right to raise their concerns. Goldilocks - Car spaces will not always be available at peak drop off and pick up times, which is understandable these are local residential streets. 'perfectly capable of walking round the corner' ? 1) You have assumed. 2) Walking is not cycling or scooting which is what was being discussed. I am not prepared to discuss on an open forum why people in my family cannot safely cycle or scoot, they may wish too but it is simply not possible or safe. It could a wide range of reasons: age, disability, medical guidance etc. ?people needing to drive are hugely overstated!? In your view. What is fair and reasonable to one person may not be fair or reasonable to another. Not everyone has empathy, understanding and kindness towards others. It would be helpful for people to reflect and check their privilege before posting. I will not responding to any further comments on this thread as I feel it will not be productive. If you have concerns with any of the proposals email the following people: [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] - our local member of parliament [email protected] - our London Assembly member

Creating a safe cycle / walking route does not require a 'permeable filter' or road barrier / closure. The residents of Melbourne Grove had the option of a filter which would reduce 'through traffic' and make cycling / walking safer but allow residents vehicles etc., to enter and exit without negatively impacting neighbouring streets. Instead it is proposed to introduce a 'permeable filter' traffic barrier to stop 'through traffic' entering and exiting Melbourne Grove reducing concerns / pollution on one road, while they the residents of that road remain free to drive their vehicles, via nearby streets creating congestion and pollution impacting other residents. This is not changing local travel habits or reducing vehicle usage, it is empowering car / vehicle ownership for a minority, allowing them to redirect their usage onto already congested neighbouring streets.

goldilocks Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > EDAus - Have you considered cycling or scooting to > Nimble Arts if you're using it? > > You'd be amazed how quickly you can get over > there like that - plus a bit of fresh air / > exercise does wonders for the kids! We've been > scooting or cycling for the past couple of years. > there is some bike parking inside the gate too to > keep it relatively secure! Yes thank you we have considered cycling or scooting - as I said right above given the location of our child care providers plus multiple pick up?s plus the opening / closing times of our childcare providers make it simply not possible for us. In case you wondering, yes we have also considered one of us giving up our jobs so we can cycle and scoot through the streets but we also like being independent people and role models for our children plus sorry we have to work to support them. I wish people would recognise just because something works for your family or situation it may not work for others for a wide range of issues such as disabilities, the age of young children, childcare opening times etc.

exdulwicher Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Exduliwcher - > > Thank you but I don't consider the local > residents, local shop workers and other people I > have spoken to about these issues over the years > as statistics. I have taken on board their > comments and lived experience. > > We call that "anecdata". > When anecdotes (stories, opinion, sometimes first > hand, sometimes a mix of "a friend of a friend > said/did/experienced...") get blended with > assumptions and supposition and (usually) a fair > bit of emotion and then uplifted to be "fact". > > Classic case is pretty much any thread to do with > cycling/cyclists and especially helmets which > always brings out anecdata like never before - I > got knocked off and I WOULD HAVE DIED without my > helmet therefore everyone should wear helmets. > > First part is fact - got knocked off bike, was > wearing helmet. > Second part is supposition that can't be proven - > "would have died" (well maybe, maybe not) > Third part is the illogical leap to (wrong) > conclusion. > > The introduction of the Workplace Parking Levy in > Nottingham > https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2019/10/1 > 7/nottinghams-workplace-parking-levy-creates-jobs- > cuts-car-use-and-slashes-pollution/ saw similar > responses, if not even more negative than some of > the posts on here. It's been a resounding > success. > > It's why anecdata is a dreadful measure of "what > should be done" and you look at the bigger > statistical picture. It's also why it's important > to fill in surveys, questionnaires etc on the > council website. Sounding off on here won't do a > lot, much as the local councillors do seem to > engage fairly freely and openly. In 2015 when it was first proposed to close Melbourne Grove over 250 people signed a petition against the proposal and shared their lived experience / concerns with the Council. Dismiss people's lived experience, concerns and feedback it if you wish. I have spent my time raising my concerns.

I would encourage people with concerns or feedback to email the following people: [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] - our local member of parliament [email protected] - our London Assembly member I have also emailed the below services to see if they have been consulted and with my concerns: TFL - https://tfl.gov.uk/help-and-contact/ London Ambulance Service - https://www.londonambulance.nhs.uk/talking-with-us/ Metropolitan Police - https://www.met.police.uk/contact/af/contact-us/ London Fire Brigagde - https://www.london-fire.gov.uk/

This is very interesting Goodrich is used as a summer school by Nimble Arts, this will create issues for many parents who need to do multiple childcare picks up. In the summer holidays we have to drive or we would not make the double pick up with our chidlren.

Edguy89 - When Melbourne Grove South was closed for Thames Water works a few years ago, Ashbourne Grove received an increase in traffic heading Northbound and residents made complaints to the council in relation to this issue. It was a real life model. The residents / delivery trucks / vans / workpeople of Melbourne Grove and surrounding roads wishing to head north are unlikely to double back to exit, they will use other local roads to head north increasing traffic on these roads. I would be happy to be shown models which show the residents of Melbourne Grove will not drive down Ashbourne and Chesterfield Grove to enter and exit, however comments on EDF and other media show that they intend to do so. Exduliwcher - Thank you but I don't consider the local residents, local shop workers and other people I have spoken to about these issues over the years as statistics. I have taken on board their comments and lived experience. Further no evidence has been presented on how this will impact Lordship Lane, will increased traffic lead to longer bus route times, increased standing traffic and pollution?

northernmonkey Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ED AUS - you?ve posted the idea that local streets > will see increased traffic from RESIDENTS of > Melbourne Grove using other streets to drive to > and from their properties or to have deliveries. > There are a few points on this: > 1. The vast majority of traffic on Melbourne Grove > is through traffic, not residents coming and > going. It?s a rat run/ short cut/ means of > bypassing Lordship Lane. A filter at either end of Melbourne Grove South would have resolved the issue of through traffic, it would have allowed the residents of Melbourne Grove to enter and exit but stopped through traffic. A majority of residents on Melbourne Grove have pushed for a barrier, to stop all traffic. I would suggest residents on Matham, Chesterfield and Ashbourne Grove now campaign to stop the ?through traffic? from Melbourne Grove and surrounding roads off it e.g. Playfield Close. > 2. Melbourne Grove isn?t actually going to be > ?closed off?, just restricted at one end. > Therefore residents can enter and exit at the > other end if they want. Please be accurate it is not restricted access e.g. for residents only, it is a road traffic barrier at one end of a significant road in the overall highway network. Modelling has shown that traffic travelling north will go via Ashbourne Grove, especially larger trucks as Chesterfield Grove is too narrow for such traffic. This was confirmed by the Thames Water works over the last few years. > 3. For access to eastbound destinations it will > make sense for residents of Melbourne grove to use > Ashbourne, chesterfield etc, but they will also be > doing this now anyway. The traffic that will have > to change behaviour is through traffic which > again, was using Melbourne as a cut through. > There may be separate concerns about how that non > residential traffic gets to the main road in > future but there really should never have been > such volumes of traffic on a residential side > street in the first place! I would suggest that the residents of Ashbourne Grove and Chesterfield Grove email [email protected] and [email protected] campaigning to stop the ?through? traffic from Melbourne Grove and surrounding roads off it e.g. Playfield Close. This has been a divisive issue in the community for many years, to see the local residents of Melbourne Grove now do this to other roads will have an significant impact on community cohesion and relationships. I am also extremely concerned about the inclusion and equality impact of such decision making. Many low paid residents of Southwark drive as alternative to public transport as they work in jobs with less flexibility for start and finish times and / or in a number of low paid jobs which means they use their own cars to get from one to another as public transport connections are not strong in this borough. Decision makers should be held to account as to how their decisions impact the overall wider community.

The Council are moving forward with a barrier on Melbourne Grove South. They could have chosen a filter to reduce traffic but have made the decision to recommend a full traffic barrier - further detail can be found on the webiste: http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/mgIssueHistoryHome.aspx?IId=50023147&Opt=0 If you live on key roads such as Maltham, Tell, Ashbourne and Chesterfield Grove this will displace traffic onto these roads as the residents of Melbourne Grove require exit and entry points for their own cars / delivery vans etc. The best thing people can do is email Richard and Dale with their objections / concerns as soon as possible: [email protected] Lead member: Councillor Richard Livingstone, Cabinet Member for Environment, Transport and the Climate Emergency [email protected] Contact: Dale Foden, Head of Highways Email: [email protected] Tel: 020 7525 2045.

Melbourne Grove South is being given a barrier to stop all traffic not a filter (stops speeding etc), a sensible choice was available for this location and was rejected. The best thing people can do is email Richard and Dale with their objections as soon as possible: [email protected] Lead member: Councillor Richard Livingstone, Cabinet Member for Environment, Transport and the Climate Emergency [email protected] Contact: Dale Foden, Head of Highways Email: [email protected] Tel: 020 7525 2045.

Melbourne Grove South is being given a barrier to stop all traffic not a filter, please be accurate. The best things people can do is email Richard and Dale with their objections as soon as possible: [email protected] Lead member: Councillor Richard Livingstone, Cabinet Member for Environment, Transport and the Climate Emergency [email protected] Contact: Dale Foden, Head of Highways Email: [email protected] Tel: 020 7525 2045.