littleEDfamily

Well you can rest assured, Saffron, I did not create a scene about it (does that make me gracious?), nor did I ever mention it to anyone there (just quietly seethed before mentioning it here). Perhaps there are deep and meaningful reasons for him not wanting to do as asked and mother willing to allow him his preference, but perhaps not (and based on my broader observations of the individuals concerned), most likely not. I think guests have just as much of a need to be gracious as hosts. I was raised to respect the house rules when a guest, and in all but exceptional circumstances, I expect my kids to do the same.

I think an email or text to say thanks is fine. Cards actually annoy me a bit, makes me feel the person is being a bit too 'fancy', but I recognise its how some people are brought up. It's the sentiment that counts as Moos says, not the medium, Re: preferences, I always say ' Is there anything you DON'T eat?', and I expect people to really only say if it's food that makes them gag (or they are vege or allergic etc), I wouldn't expect people to start trying to dictate the menu and can honestly say there have been very few times in the last 20 years I have felt people were being impolite. re: kids - would pose same question as above, but probably be even less inclined to cater for preferences as think that's part of growing up that you learn to shut up and eat what you're given at other people's houses. It makes my blood boil when kids come to our house, and their parent asks if I have 'anything else' (like toast???) for them when I have already prepared tea. Edited to say, as mentioned above I have found people are polite when it comes to their own eating preferences, but are strangely forthcoming about what their little ones don't like. But not always - a friend and her family were round for Sunday lunch the other day and we dished up ice cream for all the kids, when I remembered her little boy didn't like ice cream (is this even possible??). None of them mentioned it, and the little boy (4) in question just politely declined and asked if he could leave the table. Once I remembered, I was more than happy to find him some other yummy thing to eat. A good example in my opinion of how to handle this sort of thing..... But I do have a question I'd like others views on (sort of linked to your OP new mother, but not really) - if we are having families round, I often have a kids' table and an adults' table. The other day, one of the parents just put her kid (aged 6) at the adults table as he 'didn't want to sit with the children' (his cousins, roughly the same age!!!) and everyone had to budge up. Am I being a misery? I was not impressed......

Agreed, Saffron. My recovery from Birth 1 (in hospital) was slow and incomplete (chronic post-partum issues), made much much worse by virtually non-existant post-partum care and frankly ill-informed professionals. After a homebirth, I had full care from hubby and was visited daily by midwives I knew and who knew my history. Which might explain why (as a rather risk averse sort of person), on balance (taking into account all factors), what was offered with a homebirth option was I perceived to be safer for me than any other option available. It is shocking what others have experienced from NCT teachers. I'm amazed that a lay-person would be prepared to offer such one sided and ill informed advice to the actual person (I think theorising about these issues in general is very different). Birth is not black and white, and is a highly emotive issue, so on the issue of guilt, I think it is unavoidable that we all feel it. Although it is not right that women who have been unable to have the sort of birth they hoped for feel distressed by that, those of us who choose homebirths also face some pretty nasty criticism - I was told by family members that I was being reckless and, to quote 'was putting my personal preferences over the health of the baby'. Ouch. But it's a hard and judgmental world out there, and being judged by all and sundry (with the worst critic being myself) continues it seems throughout parenthood! That said, you would expect that the individuals employed to care for us would be professional and compassionate enough to put their judgment aside, which clearly they are not always prepared or resourced to do.

Interesting point about risk seeking behaviour - I would argue that practices like epidural are another example of potential risk seeking behaviour - I would no more accuse a woman opting for a homebirth of risk seeking behaviour than someone who chooses intervention such as epidural which interferes with the normal progression of labour and can significantly increase the chance of further complication. Choosing to have your baby in Kings, where for my first baby, I shared a blood spattered post natal toilet with 5 other woman and had virtually no assistance from anyone in the 8 hours after my birth could also be described as 'risk seeking'. Death in childbirth is a real possibility still - I am not sure if you are trying to suggest that people with my sort of perspective on birth think it is some sort of jolly. We don't. I spent my whole life being terrified by the thought of birth based on what my mother and many of my friends and relatives went through (and TV - where every woman I ever saw in labour was totally fearing for her life and had to be rescued by heroic doctors!) and it was only when I educated myself (a process that is ongoing), I managed to gain what I hope is a more balanced perspective. PS thanks belle and mrs f and about the clarification on the French

newfakename (love your style with that by the way), I completely see where you're coming from. Trust me, I don't think birth is easy and I agree luck plays a huge part - even though my birth experiences were very positive and easy relatively speaking, I never ever want to go through it ever again - the pain was excruciating and I just count my lucky stars I got away with it (not entirely scott free - I have some scars!) and have two lovely children. But.... the point I was making is that we have to give whatever is our best case scenario for birth a proper crack, just as you did. I have no doubt you needed your c-section and I really hope you feel better about everything (your NCT teacher sounds bloody annoying). I agree with your comment that the mainstream 'standard' care needs to be made much better. It does seem that a lot of the time (and I am guilty of this) we focus too much on the extremes - elective c sections/ intervention heavy births vs 'natural' home births, when the reality is most women end up with a reasonably normal birth, with good and bad aspects.

I think there is a very good chance that your baby now has very negative associations with nighttime in her cot. Once you have fully investigated the possible physical causes, I would suggest you try a whole new nighttime routine - for instance putting her in your room in a different cot, considering co-sleeping, rocking her to sleep etc...you can always reintroduce her cot in a separate room when the negative association has been broken (and when you are getting more sleep and have the strength to try it again). At around 7 months I had resorted to sleeping with my baby with her basically attached to me. It was exhausting and perhaps not ideal, but at least we all got some sleep. She now (17 months) sleeps very well in her own cot and has done for months. If what you are doing is not working, bin it and give the suggestions above a crack (or if you can afford it, enlist the services of a sleep professional). Good luck (you must be totally knackered and having difficulty thinking straight).

Just to comment on this point from SBryan: For example, how many of you know that if you have an induction, in your first pregnancy, because you're overdue (and were previously low risk) you have a 50% chance of needing a caesarean? Didn't know the stat but was certainly aware that induction is the first step towards a much greater likelihood of everything going pear-shaped, and those figures do not surprise me. I find the whole concept of 'overdue' for first babies quite arbitrary until at least 42 weeks. Perhaps you can shed some light on why full term is 40 weeks here and (as I understand it) 42 weeks in France for a first baby. I would say most women do not genuinely believe they are going to have a perfect birth - the majority of us simply are not that deluded. It is completely right and natural that many women do everything in their power to chase that dream - and why not? Why be defeatest about it? It's a terrifying process if you think about it - there is so much at stake - and we go into it after a lifetime of negative images we see of labouring women in movies and TV, not to mention the 'horror' stories we women share socially. Particularly in view of this, I think it is wonderful and quite amazing really that hope for something better prevails. And if guilt is a side effect of the reality of that dream not materialising, that has got to be better than we women going into pregnancy and labour feeling like powerless victims at the mercy of fate and medical professionals, bogged down by the statistics and dire warnings about what may go wrong (and therefore at much greater risk of the prophecy becoming self fulfilling). I certainly had luck on my side with my births, but I honestly believe I would not have had the positive outcomes I did without the encouragement of NCT teachers like sillywomen, experienced midwives (including my a particular midwife in my team and people like Ina May Gaskin). Had I been in the US under the care of an obstetrician (even a very nice, forward thinking one like you seem to be SBryan), I think it is very likely I would have had intervention and a medicalised birth. This may not be the end of the world, particularly if mum and baby both survive unscathed, but it is certainly not something to aspire to or resign oneself to. The unique perspective and skills of obstetricians are obviously crucial in certain situations, but it is not the gospel.

Fantastic post, SBryan. I had a beautiful homebirth, but I would have chosen an attached midwifery led birthing unit if I had the choice, particularly in view of the information I have extracted from reading this thread. I adored the midwives who delivered our second baby at home and their skills certainly put me in the best possible position to labour and deliver our baby naturally and easily, but if I am 100% honest with myself, I do not know how they would have coped in an emergency situation (but the midwives who attended me with our first at Kings seemed much less competent, and I have my doubts about whether they would have escalated any concerns appropriately). I do not think the future of birth in the UK should be the American model of highly medicalised birth (although I suspect that it may not be as bad as we are told it is), or a homebirth revolution. It is very heartening to hear a medical professional express balanced views which recognise birth as a natural process, as well as the vital role science plays in giving us and our babies the best chance of a positive outcome. Edited to add - the one point on which my pespective is slightly different from Sbryan's - although I have no doubt the factors you mention (obesity etc) are all significant contributors to the rates of intervention, I firmly believe that women's lack of belief in their ability to birth naturally (caused primarily by cultural factors) is also responsible for the rates of intervention we continue to see. It may be that many women feel fine about having intervention-heavy births, but for the health of women and their babies in general, I believe the medical profession and society need to focus on the psychological and cultural aspects of birth much much more than we currently do as this is so important for the birth outcome no matter what the setting.

Very interesting all. Nice to have a lively convo on the forum without it turning ugly. Off for a nice mug of cocoa now...seriously, I am :-)

Hang on, I never said that diet was the ONLY reason people develop osteoporosis, simply that if dairy were the wonder 'bone food' that we are made to think it is, the incidence of osteoporosis in the West would not be what it is. My statement was not inaccurate at all. And I speak as someone due to have a bone scan in the coming months for potential osteoporosis caused by another factor (coeliac disease), so I am very aware of the different ways that people may be susceptible to this condition. I eat dairy, as do my children, and I am not suggesting anyone exclude it from their diet, but I would actually suggest it is just important that people are educated about dairy and its negative effects in much the same was they might look for medical advice (or do their own research) relating to the potential risks if it is completely excluded. And finally, I would not be very confident that your average GP will be very up to speed on any of this - they'll probably just troll out the normal dross that we have been raised on about the importance of dairy. Maybe a dietician (I'm seeing one in a couple of weeks so will let you know) may be able to offer an informed opinion taking into account the various, and often competing, schools of thought. But as with everything, people should do their own research if they think the issue is worth it, and not just rely on a GP to tell them what to do. (And moderator, just to add (so you don't have to), that in the case of acute illness in children, A&E, Seldoc or your GP must be your first point of call). We need to get away from this dairy obsession, especially for children. It is simply not enough to stuff your children full of dairy and expect them to have healthy bones for life - even with reasonable weight-bearing exercise - the research just doesn't bear that assumption out.

Oh and just to add there is strong evidence that dairy is bad for asthma, as well as a host of other conditions. If your child is prone to asthma, I would strongly suggest looking into this in further detail.

Agree wholeheartedly!!! There is no way we would see the rates of osteoporosis we see in the West if the calcium in the vast quantities of dairy we tend to consume actually did our bones the good they say it does. sophiechristophy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Unlike the iron in spinach (you can boost your > iron absorption from green leafy veg by eating > together with a source of vitamin C, such as lemon > juice or tomato btw), calcium is more easily > absorbed into our body from veg sources than it is > from dairy. Calcium is present in so many whole > foods, that in a well balanced diet you will more > than likely be getting enough from the foods that > you are eating. Comparing the level of calcium > present in diary vs a vegetable source does not > tell you how much calcium is actually absorbed by > those sources into the body.

I agree with all of sophiechristophy's points on milk. But... there are lots of things we're not 'designed' to eat, but (the vast majority of us) have come to tolerate well and provide a source of certain nutrients (but I also do not think milk is the 'wonder' source of calcium we're brainwashed to think it is, bearing in mind the nations with the highest dairy consumption also have the highest rates of osteoporosis). I do think formula for older babies is a total con and personally I prefer the idea of organic cow's milk. My daughter (17mo) has only ever drunk out of a cup and drinks mainly water, but also milk and (gasp) juice. I know people freak out about bottles for older babies, but I wish mine would take a bottle, as (rightly or wrongly), I think it's quite a nice cosy routine to have once or twice a day before sleeptime (and it would help me get her off the boob!) Having said all that, to answer you question, I reckon you're fine giving cows milk in a bottle a couple of times a day at 12 months. I warm the milk by adding some hot water to it (lazy). Ditch the formula, I say. And aim to get her off a bottle by 2 years.

Sounds exactly like hand foot and mouth, which my daughter had - well yours sounds like classic version, whereas mine had the rash on her bottom and thankfully hardly any mouth ulcers. Out of interest, what did the doctor say?

Rest assured, Sanne Panne, I am not of the incessant 'good job' variety!!! I've noticed how well praise works now on my 4.5 year old as I fell into the habit of expecting her to do everything well all the time. When I do give her credit for the really wonderful things she does like looking after her sister or making her own bed, her face just lights up (in a way it didn't in the toddler years, when I think the greatest tool in the fight against bad behaviour has got to be distraction followed closely by ignoring!!)