first mate

Bobby P, And it will not stop there, of course it won't. It's called the thin end of the wedge- all the council need is a starting point and the thing will snowball and the permit costs will rise and rise- as shown in other boroughs. I still don't understand why the consultation against in Bermondsey was good enough to stop CPZ, but here it is not. Is one area of Southwark treated differently from another?

bil, Quite, and all that monitoring will cost. Penguin68, the idea of community is as freely open to interpretation as is the idea of a consultation and what constitutes a mandate for action by the council. The goal posts move so quickly it is hard to keep up.

James, The whole scenario is wide open, as you say. It may or may not have the'desired' effect and that is what is so perturbing about the whole thing. Plus the notion of 'desired effect' is also a moveable feast/famine.

James, I quote you earlier today: "The proposals for controlled parking are now for 1hour on an experimental basis". When was this decision made and by whom?

In October poster ali had this to say on a personal expereince of introduction of CPZ in Herne Hill I used to live in a flat in Herne Hill - a good 10-15mins walk from Brixton tube station. Lambeth council introduced a CPZ around the tube station, so all the drivers that were parking close to the tube, began parking on roads out of the CPZ that were a 5 min walk from the station So Lambeth council introduced MORE CPZ's,this time on those streets that were a 5 min walk away from the tube. So drivers started parking in the roads that were a 7 minute walk from the station. So Lambeth council introduced MORE CPZ's on the roads that were 7 min walk from the station. So the cars started parking on the roads that were a 10 minute walk from the station.... you see where I'm going with this. Now my flat, a good 10minute+ walk from the station has a CPZ. AND ALL THE ROADS IN BRIXTON HAVE CPZ's. Traffic wardens go up and down all day on their scooters, catching people out and ticketing them. And you cannot park anywhere. It's a totally hostile environment. Furthermore, visitors permits that were once quite reasonably priced, have gotten more and more expensive and I think I'm not wrong in saying that trader parking permits are now ?25+ per day. So when you want the plumber to come fix your boiler, add another ?25 to that bill. While I sympathise with those that have trouble parking outside their houses (I sometimes have this because of the local pub!), the trouble is that if this is introduced, it will gradually roll out until all the streets have CPZ's and none of us will be able to park anywhere except on our small allocated patch of road and we'll all be charged for the privilege. You won't be able to pop along to the Leisure Centre, the post office, a cafe, to the dentist, to the doctor - because unless you live on that street, you won't have a permit. All the streets will have CPZ's eventually. Please say no to this.

In November Councillor and CPZ decision-maker, Barrie Hargrove, ; Thank you for your comments and concerns. I am copying in Tim Walker, our Senior Engineer, who is responsible for collating responses to the consultation. Both Tim and myself are essentially neutral on the outcome of this. As a responsible local authority we do recognise that the ever growing numbers of vehicles on our roads is becoming increasingly unsustainable and that restrictions on commuter parking is one way to combat this. However, our policy is to install Controlled Parking Zones only where residents want them. If the outcome of the consultation is that residents do not think the benefits of a CPZ outweighs the possible disbenefits"

Do the estate agent cars park primarily in the streets around the station?

n a letter on the 17th November Councillor Peter John stated: ?Please be assured that if the objections outweigh support, then a CPZ will not happen?. Perhaps the councillor does not understand the way the process works either.

garnwba, You seem to be saying that the consultation should have little if any bearing on actions taken by the council, in that a majority have clearly said no to CPZ. You may be of the mindset that CPZ's work, the majority is not of the same mindset. I am alarmed by the stance that the consultation is more or less irrelevant. Councillors like James Barber seemed to suggest that the consultation was wholly relevant and would direct the final decision on the matter.

The most important thing is that there is a clear majority vote against CPZ in East Dulwich. Either the consultation is relevant or it is not. If it is not, in your view relevant, then why was it carried out at tax payer expense? Do you accpet the results of the consultation or not?

The issue is East Dulwich, moreover one need look no further than Bermondsey who have also thrown CPZ out, to have a sense of what other communities might feel. Let us focus on East Dulwich and the process here. The majority have said no, that vote against should be honoured or it makes a nonsense of the consultation process on which tax payers money was spent, and where many people went to a lot of effort to make their views known.

South Lndon Press online seem to be of the view that James Barber, for one, HAS already made his mind up: "Despite the concerns raised, the extra parking controls have the backing of East Dulwich Lib Dem opposition councillor James Barber. He said in an online forum discussion: ?In my mind it?s a decision made for the people who live in the streets where the CPZ is proposed, because they are the ones who will have to pay for a parking permit and they are the ones who complain about people parking on their street.?

Juanito, Do you live anywhere near Peckham Rye over the Scutari Road side- only a Chihuahua has been lost and is on the run and very frightened. He went missing on Wednesday and has been seen running around that area. It occurs to me that although these dogs are very small, this one is a red colour and you might have seen this? A longshot but thought I'd ask?

would implore everyone to write to their local MP's and councillors demanding that the majority vote gainst CPZ as well as the democratic process is upheld. For CPZ to go ahead after all this would be an abuse of power. It is vital that a large number of people against also attend the community council meetings on these dates- sorry for shouting but most will be so sorry if they realize that vloting with their feet could have stopped something that will affect all of us if pushed through. put these in your diary DO NOT RELY ON OTHERS TO GO ON YOUR BEHALF - do not rely on your local councillors to represent your views (especially if you're in East Dulwich Ward) 7pm 24 January Dulwich Community Council will be held at St Barnabas Church 40 Calton Avenue SE21 7DG and the chair person has agreed to largely hand over - as much as he can - the meeting to discussing the CPZ. 7pm 10 January Camberwell Community Council is proposed to be held at Jessie Duffett Hall, 92 - 94 Wyndham Road, London SE5 0UB. North and east of Grove Vale is covered by CCC, south of Grove Vale by DCC

I would implore everyone to write to their local MP's and councillors demanding that the majority vote gainst CPZ as well as the democratic process is upheld. For CPZ to go ahead after all this would be an abuse of power. It is vital that a large number of people against also attend the community council meetings on these dates- sorry for shouting but most will be so sorry if they realize that vloting with their feet could have stopped something that will affect all of us if pushed through. put these in your diary DO NOT RELY ON OTHERS TO GO ON YOUR BEHALF - do not rely on your local councillors to represent your views (especially if you're in East Dulwich Ward) 7pm 24 January Dulwich Community Council will be held at St Barnabas Church 40 Calton Avenue SE21 7DG and the chair person has agreed to largely hand over - as much as he can - the meeting to discussing the CPZ. 7pm 10 January Camberwell Community Council is proposed to be held at Jessie Duffett Hall, 92 - 94 Wyndham Road, London SE5 0UB. North and east of Grove Vale is covered by CCC, south of Grove Vale by DCC

Penguin68, I am sure that James will not drag this out until the last minute because that would look too much like playing politics with what is, clearly, an extremely important issue to so many in the area. Or am I being horribly naive? I still do not understand what piece of information is suddenly going to appear in late January that prompts Mr Barber to make his mind up. After all, he is on the transport scrutiny group, so is probably better informed on all fo this than many other councillors.

Loz, Excellent point. The case against keeps stacking up. I just wish James would come on and let us know where he stands, I'm having difficulty understanding exactly what it is he needs to figure out at this juncture- what is it that is holding him back, or to put it another way, who or what has such a hold over him that he cannot make his mind up?

James I too would like to know what you have decided with regard to CPZ, as I am sure would many others. You will be attending the Community Council in a position of influence and it is reasonable to ask how you will choose to use that influence? You have had sight of the consultation results and know the detail,you have spoken to residents and followed the debate on the forum. What else do you need to know before you decide on your recommendations? It is beginning to feel as though the Southwark consultation, which shows a majority against CPZ, is irrelevant in helping you to reach your conclusions.

James, I think if you are scraping around for figures like this then to 'believe' is not enough, you need to know as a fact that three of the 'no's counted on Melbourne Grove were communters. Is this the case?

James, No-one is attempting to browbeat you but you are in a position of some influence on this matter in that you, not we, can write reccomendations, and, as such, I think we have some right to know what your thoughts are. It would be helpful to hear from you what is holding you back from making a decision on this? Is there an aspect that requires clarification? Are there factors we are not aware of? What, for you, is the territory that is unclear? I do not think that it is unreasonable to ask you this.

We have to ask why, if the various local petitions defeated introduction of CPZ in Bermondsy, we would be tretaed differently...on what grounds? I too feel that James should do the decent thing and declare his intentions, the more he procrastinates the less credible he seems. If he is any indication of the way other councillors choose to behave on this, then lord help us. In terms of the community council I would imagine that the 20 people, from various streets, in favour will be implored to appear. This means that we need to mobilize as many heads as possible from the same and surrounding streets to also appear- but we need more than 20.

Actually, I do believe that we should perhaps reserve our ire for Councillor Hargreaves. After all, it sounds as though he is the one who will decide, and how visible and accountable has he been in all of this? I have little doubt that this whole process has been overseen by him and it is perhaps to him that we should be turning our attention? For all we know James is being used to draw fire on here so that people do not bother to turn up at the Community Councils. I have little doubt that 'process' is going to be used to the nth degree to try to get the result the council want. I suspect projected revenue from the CPZ already features in council spending projections.

I am hoping that James will now tell us which way he is going to vote/recommend? Gsirett will you and the other amazing people that sorted out the petition be resubmitting at the community councils. Is there a lawyer out there who would be prepared to represent the majority voice of ED on the matter of CPZ and make that voice heard at the community council?

On the 6th November Zak posted this: I should add that this person, having spoken to councillors, came away clearly of the view that a majority voice would carry the day. Politicians need to remember, this is not a 'game', people have already gone to considerable lengths to make their views known and to participate in what we have been assured is a transparent and democratic process. Was Zak misled? News from the Exhibition at Grove Vale Library. We went to the exhibition today and had the chance to talk to three officers, all of whom are wedded to the idea of "needing to manage kerb space" in the Borough. There were a couple of things that they had to say, that forum readers will find interesting: * When quizzed about exactly why Southwark have intitiated this particular consultation about bringing in a CPZ, they explained that it was as a result of the number of people who had been in touh with the council about parking problems. When pressed on how many people that was, we were told it was around 50 over a period of 3 or 4 years! So few - and they didn't even seem to know if they were all diferent people! So you now know that it's nothing to do with their looking for an opportunity to generate a new source of revenue! * They went on to explain that if enough people were to object to the proposal,then it wouldn't be implemented. They cited a recent consultation in Bermondsey where they'd had a petition against the CPZ with over 1,000 signatures and they subsequently abandoned the planned CPZ So above all. if you don't want a CPZ then it seems that one fruitful strategy is to ensure that there are as many people objecting to it as possible - and it shouldn't be left up to Southwark keep count of the objections! There needs to be an independent public record. Elsewhere there's a post listing the roads where a petition is going round. Those of us who object, need to make sure that all affected roads are covered and that the signed petitions are centrally collated. If you think your road isn't covered then Email the person ( scroll up) who is co-ordinating it. Petitions often don't seem to work, but it seems that this is one situation in which they might.

Well James, are you for or against CPZ on those streets. You have read the consultation, you have heard from residents, you have read this forum, you have had plenty of time to think, what will you be reommending?