first mate

Hi Sally, Are these hangars now secure then?

Just think CPZ...money!

James, Is MG having planters as well as concrete bollards now or just the former? Are the planters easily moved for emergency vehicle access? Planters Jakido - there should be planters in the road on Melbourne Grove south very soon! I am chasing up plans for elsewhere in the ward.

Wow, if any of that was happening on my doorstep I would be very unhappy, especially if posters, some of whom seem to know the children involved, advised me I was overreacting and that the most important thing was to avoid labelling antisocial behaviour as just that. Surely this goes to show that even children from ?good? backgrounds can get up to no good if left too much to their own devices. The parents of these teens ?just being teenagers and having a bit of fun? in the early hours need to put themselves in the shoes of the poor residents living on the estate. My sympathies are wholly with the residents.

Perhaps those first time posters, some of whom appear to know the young people involved, might also consider if there are grounds for them to speak to the children involved about what they have been doing or is the OP?s upset completely groundless? It does not seem to be just that person who is upset either.

intexasatthe moment Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Right ,so they are de-scoping the scheme .What > exactly does "de-scope" mean ? Fancy ?council speak? for back-pedalling, fast?!

Although it was once implied by one of the cycling advocates on here that if you couldn?t cycle to your place of work that perhaps you should consider moving!

More than that Rockets, it shows these measures have very little to do with the stated aims.

Wulfhound, Okay, but just so we are clear about the level of local support for proposals we need to know exactly who is being consulted and how much weight is given to those views. If the consultation is open to children of any age to express their views then that needs to be clearly flagged, similarly if any old cyclist anywhere in the Borough has an equal voice within the process, that too should be flagged. By that logic anyone, of whatever age, anywhere in the Borough should perhaps also have a say? However, taking all that into consideration, how then can the council claim the majority of locals support something; it is a nonsense. Additionally, how then does the council rationalise their method of measuring support for CPZ on a street by street basis only? My objection to all of this is around slippery practice and dishonesty by the council, not that I feel the views of all children should be dismissed. That said, whether they should be given equal weight and prominence with those of adult residents is moot. wulfhound Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > So we can take it that children, of a non-voting > age have participated and been counted within the > consultation process? Do you know more about this > Wulfhound? > > > No, I don't know of it at all. Zero information > one way or the other. You could presumably FoI it > if you wanted. > > But equally, I don't think we should dismiss the > views of children. Rather, I think their > perspective on the world is a valuable one, and > that their day to day experiences matter. Do you?

And alas, I think certain stakeholders have been well and truly hoodwinked and used. Some are saying the same about councillors. You don?t put in double yellows as a short term measure to allow cars to turn until word gets round- road signs do that job. No, Cllr Livingtone knows full well that car delivery of children will not cease as many come from too far away. This is a designed in Charter school drop off.

Except, exdulwicher, I really do think this will become a drop off point for parents driving their children to school. Let?s wait and see but I still fear the real council motive behind the barrier is to hasten CPZ expansion not to reduce cars, though there might be some reduction. However, don?t you find it a little odd that within the blocked zone they are also putting in double yellows to facilitate cars going up and turning around? Surely a couple of well placed road signs would make this unnecessary? However, parents dropping kids off to school will be able to do so with relative ease.

Note use of weasle-words and phrases like ?improve perception of air pollution? (no proof of actual improvement necessary) ?broad support? (not a majority then).

Dear Southwark resident, Experimental transport measures in East Dulwich The Covid-19 pandemic has required us to introduce measures that fundamentally alter people?s travel patterns and the ways in which we use Southwark?s streets and spaces. Across Southwark, we are taking action to fast-track a variety of transport measures that support increased walking and cycling, allow social distancing, improve perception of air pollution exposure, and prevent motor vehicle traffic levels from rising. The Melbourne Grove area has been identified as a priority, as it receives a very high volume of through traffic. ?Our Healthy Streets ? Dulwich? engagement project has identified a number of interventions with broad local support. We have adapted some of these to develop interventions that can be installed quickly and trialled to provide safer routes through the area for socially distanced, active travel. These are experimental measures ? we will be required to conduct full public consultation before these are made permanent, and within eighteen months from installation. The measures are flexible as the experimental nature of the trial allows us to make amendments and changes within the first six months. An option will of course be to return the highway arrangements to the original state if the trial is not deemed to be successful. We will be monitoring the impact of these changes throughout that period, using counts of motor vehicles, pedestrians and cyclists. In addition, we are inviting residents to let us know about the impact on the streets they use ? whether positive or negative ? on the feedback map at https//:eastdulwichstreetspace.commonplace.is. You are also able to sign up there for regular updates on this project. The site will be live once the measures have been installed. Cllr. Richard Livingstone Cabinet Member for Environment, Transport and the Climate Emergency [email protected] Date: 19 June 2020 Page 1 of 2 These are unprecedented times ? in collaboration with central government and Transport for London we are taking these urgent steps to ensure the health and safety of our residents. We remain committed to working with you to ensure that all the measures we take work for local people and contribute to enhanced quality of life both at this difficult time and in the future. Yours faithfully, Cllr. Richard Livingstone Cabinet Member for Environment, Transport and the Climate Emergency Page 2 of 2

Can we deal with Melbourne Grove next, which looks set to be a drop off point for Charter down the line?

So we can take it that children, of a non-voting age have participated and been counted within the consultation process? Do you know more about this Wulfhound?

Police have attended once and advised the persons involved to keep the noise down. As others have suggested, what are children doing out in the early hours littering, making noise and keeping people awake? Where are their parents? The photos are hardly voyeuristic. Karen312 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Hello Mary, I have stumbled across this tirade, > you are clearly very upset with this disturbance. > Rather than posting these voyeuristic photos of > underage children do you not think a simple > conversation with these youths could be more > productive than attempting to post their names and > wasting police time which could be more > effectively allocated to actual crimes? > > -Karen

There are some great folding bike options. Hangars may be a good idea in theory but not if they are so easily broken into, as seems to be the case at the moment. It seems unwise to invest public money in the current option until the security issue is properly sorted.

Eh? We are talking about investing in hangars not buying bicycles.

Seems like there should be no further investment in these hangars until it can be guaranteed they are secure. I would not dream of putting my bike into one at the moment.

Within the context of traffic management, until today I was oblivious that very large sections of Dog Kennel Hill, are cordoned off reducing all traffic, including bicycles, to one narrow lane either way. Grove Park is once more blocked off meaning that if you come back into ED via Camberwell you are sent on a massive detour all around the houses via Bellenden, where I believe further changes are on the cards? Once everything else is put in place in terms of the ?emergency? ED road blocks I cannot imagine the traffic chaos that will ensue. I really resent an extra half hour being put on a necessary journey for a long overdue visit to an elderly parent out of London, because of Southwark?s badly managed schemes. Does anyone know how long the extremely extensive road works on DKH and Grove Park (yet again) are for and how long they will take? Is this necessary work or being done for social distancing? Where do buses go? In regard to our Councillor, I understand he may have different priorities right now but the residents of ED badly need someone who has time and energy to represent us...that is what the role requires. I am sure individuals know this when they stand for office and also have a sense of the demographic they are elected to represent. It does seem that our man is not that interested in the concerns of many of the residents of ?leafy dulwich?.

Starting somewhere is convincing schools and parents who drive their children to and from school to start walking, cycling and using public transport, has there been much in the way of active campaigning within schools and between parent groups? Through traffic is a slightly different matter as, after all, we have to weigh the impact on the economy, not to mention vulnerable groups, if we shut down road after road. Nonetheless, One Dulwich is proposing measures to reduce through traffic at key times of the day. I think that is a very useful start, better than trying to bend an increasingly resistant majority to the will of the Council and the vocal and dogmatic pressure groups that are supporting it.

We agree. What is especially galling though is that the changes are being driven by a demographic on the basis of their children?s health, the same demographic also causing elevated traffic around children at school delivery and pick up, but the changes will not negatively impact them as much as other sectors. The irony.

Accepting that despite our best efforts some people will unfortunately die of various diseases is somewhat different to stating something to the effect f**** that old person in a care home, I need to get on with my life and if the price of that is their life, so be it. I think Trump was taking a similar line though. Visions of Soylent Green! Just out of interest though, what for you constitutes an ?acceptable? number of deaths and which sections of the population? At what point does it become a problem for you?

But aside from commuter through traffic (always given as the primary reason for CPZ) isn?t the bulk of traffic at such times largely from parents driving their children to and from school, particularly those parents whose children live further away? Is this not an issue for schools and parents to be finding solutions within the school, persuading fellow parents not to drive for the sake of their own as well as other children?s health?

Wow, the utterly expendable elderly. The disabled and seriously ill to follow, no doubt. This is the Cummings approach in lefty clothing. jimlad48 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I don't for one second believe the 470K death > figure. The science behind it is deeply > questionable, there are real concerns over how the > figure was reached and the people behind it have a > very long track record of crying wolf over > previous incidents. How they got listened to or > taken seriously again is beyond me. > > Meanwhile millions of people face unemployment, > possibly on the jobs scrapheap forever, but hey we > need to keep that 2m rule in place because great > aunty mildred can have a few more weeks of care > home existence, even if the price of doing so is > utterly screwing our kids and grandkids for > decades to come.