Coops46

went to Balfe's the other day just for a brake cable, really nice place. Jozef's is also really good, but think he deals in fixing more vintage bicycles and has a good stock of old parts! I detest Edwardes in Camberwell, such crap service from everyone minus the young guy. Used them 5 times or so, and each time afterwards, said to myself I wouldn't go back. Now I've moved to SE22 I'm glad we have a nice array of bike shops around here.

Allotments are a great idea. We don't need more car parking.

'The majority of people using the roads are motorists' - not true, av. car ownership per household in London is 41%. And how many of those use it every day? Motorists should definitely have their say, but at the moment all decisions are disproportionally weighted in favour of them. If London was made more appealing to make journeys by foot or bike, it would benefit drivers as well with less congestion. Unfortunately most cars have 1 person sat inside, it's a highly inefficient form of transport. I sure as hell wouldn't want motorists to decide what an 'appropriate speed' is, it means anything UP to the speed limit. Most people see 30mph as a goal, not a limit.

Davidh - motorists pay no more towards the road than cyclists, bus users or pedestrians. Amazing people pay ?100s a year on VED and don't even know why.

Being frustrated is not an excuse. Southwark is following other councils doing the same, and the ideal scenario would be if all inner-London boroughs followed and z1-3 was a blanket 20mph. No confusion about speed limits, less frustration and less scary roads.

Yes, most of Southwark is 20mph limit, still doesn't stop most speeding - example Southampton Way with a school - It's all a 20mph zone and no-one follows it. You create 20mph zones through design. Wide, open streets encourage speed. As I said before, it's about permeability. It's a well-used technique, and means neighbourhoods are totally free for access, but not through routes for cars to use as rat-runs. This means quieter streets in residential areas, less conflict-opportunities between pedestrians/cyclists and motor vehicles yada yada yada.

DJKillaQueen, it's unfortunate you jump to conclusions as to what I think about other forms of transport. I walk, cycle, take the bus, tube, drive. By designing properly and specifically for purpose, everyone can benefit from the improvements, especially drivers. It seems you have a real problem hearing someone younger than yourself propose new ideas. Remember, ideas come from all levels, not just top transport execs. You're welcome to your opinion, but it's slightly boring to hear such a constant flow of negativity.

Yes, true. I actually spoke to Boris the other day on this matter (bumped into him whilst cycling), unfortunately he could barely string a sentence together, let alone remember his pre-election promises.

That's strange... because all mayoral parties signed up to 'Go Dutch' at the last election as part of the LCC's campaign. http://lcc.org.uk/articles/johnson-narrows-cycling-policy-gap-with-livingstone-by-committing-to-three-go-dutch-demands If Boris will implement what he promised is another matter, there is already strong work going on to better facilitate cycling in London, especially by councils like Hackney and Camden. If we carried on with "you can't do this" and "you can't do that", then we wouldn't be the city we are today. You seem rather defeatist, which is sad.

Very interesting points, and I do understand where you're coming from. I've spent a lot of time in Holland myself, as well as some in Denmark working / studying, and I think the overall thing is how much more liveable they are. There's no point brushing ideas under the rug without coming up with satisfactory solutions, but this needs to start at a local level. Compare our 'cycle superhighways' with Denmark's, where they are taking people up to 16km into the centre from the outskirts (similar situation) on purpose built lanes where commuters achieve an average of 20km/h. You're right, we are a different situation to other megacities, but what we certainly don't share is their ambition for active transport and safer streets. I agree that 20mph limits aren't the full answer, which is why I urge a rethink on how we do things, starting with what I see locally. There are plenty benefits to reducing speed limits, increasing walking and cycling through infrastructure, and reducing road incidents. But you're not making clear the negatives?

I've just finished studying this, and it's worse that these statistics are proven, and the Gov moves at a snails pace on acting upon it. If you'd like to see how Hackney improved from this, Councillor Feryal Demirci of Hackney Borough Council speaks about it in this video taken from a conference a month or so ago: I'd welcomely speak with anyone about the benefits of this in person, and take them on a cycle to show them places around the city that work well in this respect.

DJKillaQueen, I understand your point but New York, Paris, Tokyo... These are megacities improving road conditions in precisely this way - by restricting car usage and focusing on getting as many people through junctions, not cars. When we used to look at junctions, we asked, "how many cars can we get through here an hour", this lead to abominations like Vauxhall gyratory, and this isn't a liveable situation. Now, we are beginning to ask, "how many people can we get through here an hour". By changing this mindset, you can vastly improve the road system for EVERYONE. At points like Waterloo roundabout, people on bicycles represent 25% of thoroughfare through the junction, and on Blackfriars bridge, bicycles outnumber cars in rush hour. And this is just with a modal share of 2% commuting by bicycle. Taking space from the car to build segregated cycle ways actually means reduced journey times for the car! Everyone is a winner. And one last thought, on the talk of money. Hackney council trialled closing through roads on residential streets, and made them permanent as the road now had CHILDREN PLAYING on it! This is the ultimate praise for a safe street. It also meant the road was quieter, people were happier, and house values went up on the street. Win, Win, Win. When the health benefits, time saved and reduction in congestion and car crashes are taken into account, a nation can like Denmark profits 13p for every KM cycled, where as for every KM driven by car, society makes a net LOSS of 8p.

You misuderstand me, by restricting access, I mean restrict through traffic, so closing off the ends of side streets like the bottom of Upland Rd. This is a common Dutch technique, and means that only cars that are meant to be there drive through specific areas, otherwise they take the long way round, on the main road. This means residential roads are quieter, but same access for residents and people using that area. And also means main roads are designed specifically for the amount of traffic it needs. By categorising roads through these uses, you can design to make things safer and more pleasant for everyone. And it's common knowledge that traffic doesn't displace like a liquid, more like a gas. The longer routes encourage people to travel differently, for example the Olympics, and the reduced amount of traffic in zone 1. And I think the government SHOULD obsess over this - the positives of changing the roads to a Dutch style hold more improvements than you think. People that can't afford a car need to use public transport, people that can't afford public transport can walk or cycle to their jobs. By making the last two more inviting, you can reduce transport poverty and allow everyone to get to where they'd like, how they wish. Please don't think I'm a raving old crone either with these suggestions, I'm a 22 year old design grad...

Not a 'ridiculous perspective', thanks. It's a perspective on reducing road deaths and injuries. And it's not hard to speed on London's roads, there are many opportunities for it. The 'motorist v. the world' argument has gone on for longer than its needed to, and it's why councils like Camden and Islington are reducing it to 20mph, no argument.

I've only recently moved into E Dulwich, and I'm quite astounded the state of the roads in this family/retail area. People are double parked all over Lordship Lane, cars speed up and down the residential streets, and have access to all the roads. People will only behave as well as the roads are designed, and if you limit access to residential side streets with bollards at one end, it means through-traffic is reduced to a minimum. I agree that reducing the speed limit won't do enough to help make things safe, but it's a start.

DulwichFox Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Coops46 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > By owning a car in London, you do belong to a > > minority. And as the roads are for the public > (and > > funded by the public, not just motorists), they > > should cater for the majority - pedestrians and > > public transport users. > > > Roads are for Vehicles...of all types.. > Being a Council Tax payer I too fund the roads.. > > Being a car owner/ motorist I also pay again > through my Road Fund Licence. (Road Tax) > > So I like many, Pay Twice. Despite doing less than > 2,000 mile per year. > > Fox. You do not pay twice. There is no such thing as road tax, it's called VED and is linked to the emissions of your car, hence cycling, walking and e-vehicles are free. Perhaps you'd benefit from a scheme like Zipcar if you're doing such a low mileage. They have plenty of nice cars that drive smoothly at 20mph.

By owning a car in London, you do belong to a minority. And as the roads are for the public (and funded by the public, not just motorists), they should cater for the majority - pedestrians and public transport users.

Accidents are just that, accidents. 20mph is a sensible speed in a built-up urban area, and discourages the acceleration pattern of 0mph - 30mph - 0mph as people see 30mph as a target, not a limit. I drive, I cycle, and I walk. I would rather everyone stuck to 20mph. You should check out movementforliveablelondon.com

In the time it takes a car travelling 20mph to come to a complete stop, a car travelling 30mph will still be doing 24mph. Which car would you want your loved ones to walk in front of?