EDmumma

Sounds good

post script: Patrick is a really lovely and likeable guy, I was especially impressed with how he engaged with my kids and as a married man and father of four, I thought he was in a good position to understand that a kitchen is the heart any family home. It is regrettable that this event took place. I expect it was a one-off and we have all learned something from it.

Dear Patrick, I am very surprised that you have chosen to address me publicly. You will see that I was very scarce about any details I posted but as you have insisted in telling your side of the story, allow me to do the same. The following is the claim for court proceedings that was due to be submitted at 5pm Friday 20th December. Having received the money it was NOT submitted, however it provides a summary of the events that took place and letters that were written based on sound legal advice. Attached are two photos - what our kitchen looks like (then and now) and our dining room. Noting that temperatures are below freezing in London right now, and we have two babies 5 months and 19 months - so not having a kitchen or dining room is very distressing. Request the return of ?1300 deposit from P&T Building Services (Patrick Walsh & Tony Avergis) due to breech of contract In early November we noticed water damage in our kitchen due to flooding which we believe was from the St Jude?s Day storm of Sunday 28th & Monday 29th October 2013. We contacted our insurance company who sent a surveyor to assess the damage and cost of repairs. We were given the option of using the insurance company contractors, or sourcing our own local service providers. Having had a bad experience with builders in 2010*, I went on to the East Dulwich forum and read the reviews of recommended services in the area. Four companies came to the house for site inspection and provided quotes to repair the damage. I was very impressed with the punctuality and friendliness of Patrick Walsh and Tony Avergis from P&T Building Services who visited the house on up to six occasions in the planning and preparation for building works. Because of their high level of professionalism, we decided to engage their services to re-fit other parts of the kitchen (replacing old kitchen cabinets), which we were paying for independently of and in addition to the water damage repair. The cost of engaging P&T Building services for 7-10 days was agreed at ?3480. On the evening of Monday 2nd December 2013 Patrick and Tony turned up at my house asking for a 30% deposit to guarantee the work would commence that week. I said I would pay this via bank transfer and Tony wrote down his personal bank details. On Tuesday I received a message asking why the transfer had not taken place that morning. A receipt of bank transfer for ?1300 and a Service Agreement were emailed to Tony on Wednesday 4th December. He acknowledged receipt of the email via a text message at 10.06am (04.12.13). Work was due to commence at 9.00am on Thursday 5th December 2013. At 11.00am I received a phone call from Patrick saying that they would not be coming as Tony had spent the night (04.12.13) in hospital with his girlfriend. I asked why I hadn?t been contacted sooner and why Patrick could not come and get started. To which he replied that he ?was still finishing another job at Rachel?s house?. At 4pm he said he did not know what was going on with Tony but promised they would both turn up to start at 11am on Friday (mentioning he would be at Rachel's house again in the morning from 7.30am finishing there, then coming over). Patrick arrived at 1pm on Friday and said he had not heard from Tony and was unsure what was going on. I asked again could he get started by removing shelving units etc. to demonstrate that work would take place. He said no, that they would start on Monday. I questioned how could he be sure they would start Monday if he didn't know where Tony was or what was going on. Patrick said he was also concerned that he might lose money because of not knowing Tony?s whereabouts. This alarmed me and at this point I asked for our deposit to be returned. An online search revealed that a Tony Avergis of Croydon had been declared bankrupt in 1993. I telephoned the Consumer Advice Helpline and received legal advice to send a letter via recorded delivery requesting the deposit be returned immediately due to breech of contract under the legislation: supply of goods and services act 1982. I was also made aware that because we did not receive written documentation that allowed for a 7 day cooling off period, P&T Building Services were in breech of the Doorstep Selling Regulations. Letter sent 06.12.13 recorded delivery. Our first contact with Tony was at 1.45pm on Saturday 7th December. He said he was out of town and couldn?t contact us earlier because his girlfriend had been diagnosed with cancer. An agreement was made over the phone, a summary of which was emailed immediately afterwards (07.12.13), that Tony would return the ?1300 over the weekend or by Monday 9th December at 3pm by the latest. We would then draw up a new service agreement and pay the money in instalments as a day rate (for the ?3480 as agreed). A summary of this was also sent via sms to Patrick who acknowledged receipt of the message. At this point we thought we had an amicable agreement in place. We offered a way for P&T Building services to restore our trust, as well as complete the work and get paid ? starting as soon as the deposit was returned. The money was not returned and a message from Tony stated that ?No agreement has been made yet!!! I said I would call you to discuss this,. You have over reacted to a normal situation, u have broken our contact (sic) not me, you have now made this a legal matter, if you would just like to converse with my barristers please let me know?? (2.21pm 09.12.13). With the threat of legal action, I telephoned the Consumer Advice Helpline who forwarded the case to the Department of Trading Standards (case number 11724846). On Tuesday 10th December I sent P&T Building services a letter informing them of this action and again requesting a return of the deposit. On Thursday 12th December 2013, it was revealed that all of the recommendations for P&T Building Services on the East Dulwich forum were posted by the same person posing as different aliases. On discovering this, the eight (8) different user accounts were immediately terminated by the forum administrator (8.26pm) and their IP address banned (evidenced by letter from EDF forum administrator). Again I telephoned the Consumer Advice Helpline asking what the legal implication was for fraud by false representation. The issue was referred to the Advertising Standards Authority for ongoing investigation: according to the advertising rules ?marketers must hold documentary evidence that a testimonial or endorsement used in a marketing communication is genuine? (CAP Code 3.45). I was advised to send a final letter before claim (sent 14.12.13) and informed that our local Trading Standards Service (Southwark) does not offer an arbitration service, leaving us no alternative but to proceed with court action against Patrick Walsh and Tony Avergis from P&T Building Services to reclaim our ?1300 deposit for breech of contract. -------- *As an aside, because of the previous bad experience in 2010, I was much more thorough about paperwork this time - having a service agreement in place, checking insurance papers etc. I have a record of every text message, email and phone call - including the abusive PMs via this forum. My parting message is this: DON'T EVER F*CK WITH AN EAST DULWICH MUM!!!

Hi, I'd just like to acknowledge that Patrick Walsh and Tony Avergis from P&T Building Services repaid our ?1300 deposit for work that never took place. I would like to thank the EDF Administrator for support in responding quickly to the fraudulent recommendations/ endorsements. I have learned many things in this stressful period and I am sharing them here in the hope that others do not have to go through the sleepness nights, sadness, disappointment, anger, worry and upset that I (and my family) have suffered as a result of this. 1. When reading recommendations, make sure you contact the person making the recommendation (and ask if possible to speak on the phone) 2. Be mindful of people posting recommendations without any posting history 3. If going ahead with contractors, make sure a Service Agreement is in place 4. Get a copy of their public liability insurance (personally I wouldn't trust anyone without it) 5. Facebook and other social networking platforms are a good way to check that a person is who they say they are and verify their stories/ (in our case, lies) 6. If an agreement is in place, the ?Doorstep Selling Regulations? (Trading Standards full term: consumer protection cancellation of contracts made in a consumer?s place of home or work, regulations 2008) allows for a 7 working day cooling off period (provided in writing). This means that you can withdraw from the agreement in that 7 day period, and it is illegal for them not to provide this information to you in writing. 7. A failure to turn up is considered a breech of contract under the legislation: supply of goods and services act 1982 8. Posting false recommendations breeches the Advertising Standards Authority regulations that state: according to the advertising rules ?marketers must hold documentary evidence that a testimonial or endorsement used in a marketing communication is genuine, unless it is obviously fictitious, and hold contact details for the person who, organisation that, gives it (CAP Code 3.45). 9. If you end up on the short end of a disappointing dispute like this one, the Citizens Advice Consumer Helpline [[0845 404 0506]] offers excellent, free, unlimited legal advice. They guided me through the process of taking this company to court - each step (including letter content) and necessary documents required along the way. NB The money was returned shortly before the deadline for court proceedings - (which was 5pm today). 10. NEVER pay cash or bank transfer upfront. If you need to give money in advance for materials or in our case "to secure their employment" make sure you pay via Credit Card. Credit card payments provide you with much greater fraud protection (effectively they can just take the money back) than cash, cheque or bank transfer. I really wish I didn't know any of this, I learned the hard way and we're now right back where we started in early November- with water damage to the kitchen that is in desperate need of repair. Thanks for your neighbourly support

I am now getting abusive PMs from a new member so I am leaving as it is too upsetting. Thank you everyone for your help - especially edam and Administrator. Signing off. Over and out. EDmumma

Hi Lady Norwood, apologies, you're right, that post makes no sense out of context. I was referring to another forum thread where Gallagher noticed the link between all of the people (or person) here - who has now been deleted because oh her fraudulent activity... You can read this discovery in this thread: http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?30,1232735 It appears the false recommendations in this forum may start appearing in the West Dulwich forum too. I thought perhaps a warning from a member with posting history would have more credibility. I love community forums. I am really disheartened by this activity - and the fact that we went with this company because of how many recommendations they had from so many different people. We're now fighting to get over ?1000 of our money back - all because I trusted them. I feel hurt and stupid. And angry. I would really like to do my best to make sure other people in the community don't have to feel this way too. Best EDMumma

WARNING! All of these recommendations are faked by this person. Administrator has terminated all of her accounts.

Can someone please post on the West Dulwich forums too? I think people should be warned about this activity as it's false advertising.

Much appreciated.

I've just taken some good advice and have got screen shots of all of the posts from the above user names... so if they're edited it will be obvious that something really fishy is going on!!!

Hmmm... yes there appears to be a very close link between JessyPT, ERMC, JessyPersonalTrainer, Jazzamatazz + JW86... and P&T Building Services. Check out how many recommendations there were since October - and all for different things! (see attached lists - captured as screen shot images). Full refurb and extension 10/12/13 Loft conversion 06/12/13 Carpentry for stairs 06/12/13 Interior designer and builder 21/11/13 Hall/stairs/landing 19/11/13 Painter/decorator 19/11/13 Roofer/Builder 18/11/13 Handyman 17/11/13 Landscaping 17/11/13 Building Services 13/11/13 Fireplace installation 11/11/13 Guttering 06/11/13 Painter/decorator 04/11/13 Gutter cleaning 01/11/13 Build climbing frame 31/10/13 Bathroom flooring 10/10/13 Knock through 09/10/13 Cabinet maker and builder 09/10/13 I feel so stupid for falling for this scam. : (

and in the 30 seconds it took me to type that, my son just ate some cat biscuits. where is the real childrearing manual???

Hi, yeah- gosh there is so much I am learning about anatomy as I try and work out which bits don't work anymore (including my brain!). I was on the phone recently with a friend who has recently been promoted at work, which will include international travel to exotic places, and while we were chatting I was getting dog poo off my buggy wheel with a stick (not found in "Baby Love" by Helen Barker). That's why my encounter with Kim from Bloomers was so lovely. She just made me feel like there was hope - even if it involves spandex, lightweight steel and some double stitching. : )

Actually, it's about the same service. The one in this thread... Thanks for the welcome : )

Hello fellow mums, I have recently seen a local breast consultant and posting here to share my wonderful experience and recommendation... I have two young babies, 5 months and 19 months who I both breastfed - on the sound advice from midwives, health visitors and other health professionals. The benefits of breast feeding were spelled out and clear however I wish I was told about the consequences... saggy boobs. I somehow lived in hope that, like baby weight, this would change over time. After my consultation I since learned that no, sadly not. As there is no muscle tissue there is nothing left but stretched flesh (like a deflated balloon). Oh my, are we there already!? Anyway, I am writing to thank Sharon King of Bloomers Lingerie - next to the Patch on Lordship Lane for a full bra fitting and finding something with enough support to scoop up my saggy sacks and make me feel a little perkier. I honestly can't tell you what a difference it makes - I usually dash to TKMax and grab something on sale with a number combination that sounds about right. In lieu of surgical intervention, Sharon will make you feel like you again. Best ?27 I have ever spent. (http://bloomerslingerie.com/personalservice.php) x EDmumma

WARNING! I went with the "JessyFitnessTrainer" recommendation (then posting as Jazzmatazz *). The issue is with Dept. of Trading Standards now. PM me for details.

WARNING! I have had major problems with this recommendation. The issue is with Dept. Trading Standards now. PM me for details.