panda boy

Thanks for highlighting this Lewis. Concerning the wooded area in Camberwell Old Cemetery, the council performed a variety of surveys on the area. Soil, tree, topographical among them. Despite promising to release the results of these surveys, instead they have moved the plans from the 'proposal' stage to the 'planning' stage, despite being aware of the opposition to them. A promised public consultation turned into 3 public 'exhibitions' that were open for 2 hours each time. People who were informed were given less than a weeks notice to attend. The Council have now agreed to hold a public meeting at the end of January, but this was only after people started voicing their opposition to the plans and the cynical methods the Council are employing in getting them implemented. It appears the council are determined to force these plans through regardless of any opposition to them.

Here is a response I received from Councillor Darren Merrill about this; Thank you for you response to the meeting on the proposed plans for Southwark?s Cemeteries. I?m sorry for the short notice for the meeting date but its important to get the opinions of local resident as soon as possible . The time of year has not been chosen specifically, rather it was the first opportunity to begin the process of conversation on these proposal?s and the implementation of the next phase of the agreed cemetery strategy. It is important that we begin this next phase as we currently only have approximately 3 years worth of burial space left and the process of implementation will take some time. With the three dates available at different times of day on three different day including Saturday I am hoping we?ll get a high level of attendance. In addition all materials are available on our website ( www.sothwark.gov.uk/cemteriesplans ) with the engagement exercise closing on the 9th January 2015 so anyone who is not able to attend our exhibitions will be able to view the plans and make comment in their own time before the date. This is only the start of the conversation and with 1400 letters and leaflets having been sent out to households in the roads adjacent to the two cemeteries I hope to get a wide range of views to these plans from the residents which will help shape the application to planning. This will also give additional opportunity for stakeholder around the area to give there view. Please be reassured that I am taking on every ones views on these plan and I am looking forward to working with everyone on the implementation of the cemetery strategy and at the end of it we will have a cemetery that will be respectful and a great place to use. Cllr Darren J Merrill Cabinet Member for Environment, Recycling Community safety and volunteering 0207 525 3617

Here is the response I received from Councillor Darren Merrill concerning these plans and how the council are going about them; Thank you for you response to the meeting on the proposed plans for Southwark?s Cemeteries. I?m sorry for the short notice for the meeting date but its important to get the opinions of local resident as soon as possible . The time of year has not been chosen specifically, rather it was the first opportunity to begin the process of conversation on these proposal?s and the implementation of the next phase of the agreed cemetery strategy. It is important that we begin this next phase as we currently only have approximately 3 years worth of burial space left and the process of implementation will take some time. With the three dates available at different times of day on three different day including Saturday I am hoping we?ll get a high level of attendance. In addition all materials are available on our website ( www.sothwark.gov.uk/cemteriesplans ) with the engagement exercise closing on the 9th January 2015 so anyone who is not able to attend our exhibitions will be able to view the plans and make comment in their own time before the date. This is only the start of the conversation and with 1400 letters and leaflets having been sent out to households in the roads adjacent to the two cemeteries I hope to get a wide range of views to these plans from the residents which will help shape the application to planning. This will also give additional opportunity for stakeholder around the area to give there view. Please be reassured that I am taking on every ones views on these plan and I am looking forward to working with everyone on the implementation of the cemetery strategy and at the end of it we will have a cemetery that will be respectful and a great place to use. Cllr Darren J Merrill Cabinet Member for Environment, Recycling Community safety and volunteering 0207 525 3617

Thanks Laur Just to add, the leaflet with the proposals was received this morning (3rd dec) which details 3 public 'exhibitions', on the 6th, 8th and 10th December. No mention of a public consultation or of the studies that have been made of the area. Personally I think the council are being particularly underhand by offering such short notice and such a limited timeframe for the public to express an opinion on these plans. Especially considering the promises made earlier in the year.

Here you go Laur; www.southwark.gov.uk/cemeteriesplans Please share your thoughts.

> Surely though this is not just a money making > exercise but a means to create more much needed > burial plots? Well that's up for debate. Personally I think sacrificing an area of natural woodland to create 1000 plots is pretty shortsighted. There will always be a need for burial spaces, why destroy a unique and important pocket of nature to achieve it? And the way the council are going about this, not releasing information that has been gathered (using public money) suggests to me they are more interested in the money making aspect of this. But either way, they are officially proposing this now, without the promised public consultation and without releasing the relevant information. I for one am not particularly impressed by their behaviour.

Yes indeed dbboy, thanks (Although the councils plans cover both Camberwell Old and New Cemeteries.)

Having just read the pamphlet the council have so kindly produced and sent out, I am mildly apoplectic about their plans for Camberwell Old Cemetery. - Firstly there was supposed to be a public consultation before any plans were released. This consultation was scheduled for June 2014, on the completion of several studies of the area, soil, topographical, tree's, wildlife. This consultation has been put back to 'some time later in the year, and the council have refused to release the details of these studies to the public. Unless I have missed something this is utterly disingenuous and disgusting behaviour by the council to release these plans before a public consultation. The people behind this are well aware of objections against these plans, they appear to be simply trying to ignore them. - The map details the areas designated for new burial plots. The largest area would require the removal of trees and the flattening of the ground, with no mention of the burial plots that already exist there or the effect this would have on the flora and fauna in the area affected. Personally I will be fighting against this proposal. I understand the council are trying to make money out of creating more burial plots in the area, but to effectively destroy an ancient wild woodland area in London to do it is shortsighted and bizarre. The manner they are going about this, and their inability / refusal to communicate is nothing short of woeful and cynical.

Saw a sparrowhawk in Peckham Rye today, it was on the ground rustling around in the leaves at first, then it flew off with it's freshly caught rat in its talons. Very exciting spectacle.

Thanks for your input andcharall, but it appears you're missing the point slightly. The whole point is the council plan to expand the cemetery, potentially causing the destruction the wild habitat that currently exists there. I don't believe this is wise. As for the toilets, there is a pub very close to the cemetery so no real danger of anyone being 'caught short' while attending a funeral. As for 'better than forcing people to perform behind graves', not sure where that came from, or quite what it means. Nobodies forcing anyone to do any such thing. You're right to state that Camberwell New Cemetery has toilets, but to the best of my knowledge they've not been open for a while. (They're not currently listed as a facility on the Southwark website.) Plus it is a much larger space. I don't believe it's normal for a London cemetery to offer toilet facilities. I can find very few examples of those that do. Either way, as I stated, the councils has plans for this cemetery. This toilet block is somewhat of a surprise and i'm struggling to understand the motivation behind it. Does a cemetery of such a compact size require it's own toilet block? I personally don't think so. I think it's a terrible idea. And no, of course a toilet block is not going to 'decimate the local flora and fauna'. The expansion plans certainly will. Why are you talking in such extremes?

I agree Laur, Apart from the council plans to develop the wooded area of the cemetery, (for which they are giving 2 reasons for; increasing burial plots, or just to allow 'more pubic access',) the toilet block is a very strange move. I'm not aware of cemeteries having or needing toilets, let alone a cemetery as small as this. It doesn't really make any sense. Has it been requested by the public? As I said in my first post, there were 2 notices put up for a short time, nothing more. Details can be found here; http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/mgAi.aspx?id=32956&LLL=0 While describing it as a 'temporary structure' it also alludes to it being replaced by a permanent structure in due course... I'm personally concerned about the councils development plans for this cemetery, and the potential loss of the wooded area that is a haven for wildlife. Does anyone know any more about this?

Just wanted to post something about this to the local populous, well the ones who read the forum anyway...! It was very well attended, (40+ people at a guess), many more than expected turned up. We were treated to an 'after hours' tour of the cemetery, led by Daniel Greenwood from the London Wildlife Trust. I must say it was very informative and enjoyable, learning about the flora, fauna and local history of the site which was detailed and fascinating. The cemetery has pockets of wilderness which the the wildlife clearly make great use of. In one hour, and considering we were a large group, we saw 2 species (among many others) that are listed as red on the RSPB danger list, which I would consider to be amazing considering the small footprint of the cemetery. It was even more prescient considering the council's proposed plans to redevelop parts of the cemetery, something I'm personally against given the loss of habitat that would result. For anyone that's interested, the latest council plan is to build a temporary toilet block in the middle of the cemetery... These plans have been rather subtle to say the least - 2 notices put up for the 'required period of time', but interestingly not mentioned directly by the council during a meeting about the general proposed redevelopment. I'm personally a bit bemused as to why such a relatively small cemetery requires a toilet block at all? So as well as bigging up the bird walk, i'd also like to bring the council's plans (toilet block and 'redevelopment') to the attention of the forum to see what locals think. All views welcome...

ANSWER: The proposal is to return the area to use for burial. This is the phrase that is personally most concerning. Quite how anyone can view this part of the cemetery as being even remotely suitable for burials is beyond me, even before the countless studies have been completed. (Although I am interested to see the results of all these studies, should make for some interesting reading...)

Personally I prefer to fly from Heathrow, I find they have a greater selection and more flexible flights than Gatwick. (The airport choice very much depends on the flight you want to get though.) I always use The Keen Group for my airport cabs, (they absorbed Dulwich Cabs who I used before that) and have never had a problem with them, for either drop offs or pick ups.

Unusual spider evicted from the bathroom. From it's markings it looked very much like a false widow. Aggressive little thing...

They got half way up Underhill too. Tossers.

Well said Willard.

Bluerevolution, you seem to have missed the point. Why should anyone get a childcare allowance when they have decided to stay at home to raise their children? What do they need the childcare allowance for? Not for childcare as they're performing that function.

Bluerevolution, you seem to have missed the point. Why should anyone get a childcare allowance when they have decided to stay at home to raise their children? What do they need the childcare allowance for? Not for childcare as they're performing that function.

I agree with you, it is perfectly reasonable to query it. Describing her as a scammer without knowing anything about her or even trying to find out anything more and ust posting on here is however not reasonable. Its an assumption. "Offload the guilt trip somewhere else." For heavens sake why? Are you suggesting people posting assumptions on this forum are supposed to be protected from feeling guilt?

This 'older woman in green garb and headscarf' as you so eloquently descibe her has a genuinly tragic story. Maybe ask around some of the local shops and do some homework to find out her background before pasing judgment or writing ill informed opinions on a local forum. If you don't agree with the way she presents herself then don't buy from her and stick to cheery Kelvin.

rahrahrah, i'm not sure that would be the answer either. I believe fundamentally the driving test needs to be more rigourous, plus re-testing every 5 or so years could help keep the more pertinent elements, along with changes of the highway code in drivers minds. Then again its a mixture of driving attitude and personality which seems to play a part also. I mean what goes through peoples minds when they accelerate towards you down the middle of the road? This is the main point of my thread, on specific roads around ED with the square speed cushions in place. The more that appear the more my heart sinks a little as the roads they are on seem to become more dangerous at certain times of day.

I agree

civilservant, thnak you so much for your reasoned response. Various points taken on board, including the title of my original thread and the humilty! I've had a chat with the all seeing and knowing Admin and all appears to be well... And if anyone would like to defend the councils action on the ED Grove / Rye junction i'd love to hear it. I know theres an ongoing post about it so will not mention it here. Thanks again

rahrahrah Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The way to stop it is to remove the speed bumps > and *shock* police the roads, targetting bad > drivers. Great idea, but maybe theres something that can be done while we wait for that ball to start rolling? I mean the council can't seem to organise (despite promising to do so for what seems like years now) sorting out the ED Grove / Peckham Rye junction traffic light phasing, despite numerous accidents and a death, so unfortunately I have no faith in the system anymore.