Azira

I'm sorry that you have chosen to interpret my comments as condescending. I was trying to be kind in the face of your appalling ignorance. If you seriously believe that investors are not making predictions as to the future health of our economy, then you don't even have the faintest understanding of what products they are investing in. What on earth do you think investing in a forward or option is other than making a bet on the position of the future state of the market? The time I posted is utterly irrelevant. I was making a comment about the wider state of the market and the fact you can't extrapolate the health of the economy by a snapshot view of a single benchmark, although if you get your information about the markets from newspapers rather than actual experience (which the fact you're using Google to get your info on the FTSE alone bears out) I'm not surprised you can't grasp that. I can see you aren't interested in hearing about the facts, so won't bother with you any further, but you might want to look at Bloomberg for a start before you pretend to know what you're talking about. And for added levels of condescension, red equals bad, m'kay? http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/UKX:IND/members

Trading was suspended in Barclays, RBS and Taylor Wimpey today. Easyjet is in trouble too. Robbin, I appreciate that it is difficult to get a grasp of what is going on with the financial markets as a whole if you're not regularly immersed in the area, but please appreciate that we genuinely are facing serious economic consequences right now. I've explained why repeatedly on this forum. This is not an ideological position based on euroscepticism or Europhilia - this is the inevitable consequences based on the fact the markets know the structural impact of leaving the EU. The banks know this and are looking to get out of Dodge. You may have been told by Brexiteer campaigners or certain portions of the media that this was propaganda. To people used to two different political parties exaggerating potential doom if you don't pick them, I can understand why you might be inclined to believe the advice that supports your own desires. This is not propaganda. The markets don't care about democratic deficits and impact of immigration, whether we are culturally richer together or not. The markets care about whether they will be able to trade in the EU or not, and whether there is a risk of systemic financial failure.

Correct me if I've missed something, but I can't see where anyone is saying ALL Leave voters are racists other than Leave voters who are imputing that to Remainers.

I think he's saying that the little racist sh1ts think they have licence to do it because EU law no longer applies, without realising that racism being illegal is not based in EU law. FWIW, I don't think that's why racists think they can get away with this now.

I'm having trouble following your logic - are you equating the EU with Nazi Germany?

I think that may be crediting such people with more intelligence than they have, Glen. Since posting the above, more foreign-born and non-white friends have reported similar instances.

Please do share this WM. Shout it from the rooftops. We are in serious danger of sleepwalking into very dark territory indeed. I tried to tell one of my dear English friends about the xenophobia I've been subjected to over the years and she told me I'd misunderstood people. She was only prepared to accept without question my accounts of being told to go home recently on the basis that it was referendum mania. I don't think it is remotely helpful to categorise the Brexiteers as all being racist/xenophobes, I do believe this has legitimised some terrible sections of society. We have to keep talking about what is happened. Evil happens when good people remain ignorant or turn a blind eye.

...when we just argued about whether Save Southwark Woods were nutjobs. :(

No, that's the mechanism for achieving exit Glen. I can assure you that those of us with expertise in EU law don't know what is happening next either.

Heh. Sadly no - early 40s. And I think they do too hard a job for me anyway.

Heh @ WM

messageRe: There is no plan new Posted by Jules-and-Boo Today, 05:45PM Can we officially call this after the dessert, Eton Mess? No, because if we learn anything from this whole mess, it should be to be suspicious of simple stories.

Jules, that is disingenuous in the extreme. You even made specific reference to no-one caring what colour his wife was. Before you start having a go at other people behaving badly, you might like to wind-in your own pot shots.

I agree with your analysis of Boris's motives, but this is more than an Eton rivalry. I believe most of the rest of the Leave campaign genuinely believed in their message. The idea that they engaged in this with zero thought as to what would come next is, sadly, consistent with the lack of rational thought that underlined their arguments on many topics.

Cameron quit because he cannot tenably negotiate this situation and to give us the widest range of options. And I completely agree with you about they way some people have behaved on here Jules. For instance, making sneery comments about the "little racists have had their say". Or suggesting to someone whose partner is now at real risk of being the target of racist attacks now the facists feel their position has been given legitimacy that no-one cares about her ethnicity. There are a lot of people who have conducted themselves in a snipy, sneery fashion. Frankly, considering the stakes of this decision, I don't think its that surprising that feeling is running high.

No, but the MPs in the Leave campaign should have had some inkling of a plan.

It isn't correct Foxy. This has been demonstrated time and time again - the amount does not take into account the rebate we receive (so it can even be claimed that we paid that amount out) nor the funding various regions got. Even if the figure was correct, where we won't have that money anyway as your decision has just screwed our biggest industry in this country. I'm pleased for you if you've got enough private wealth that you're going to be insulated from the economic fallout and assume you're not reliant on a pension, but the rest of us are in serious trouble now.

Wow: http://news.sky.com/video/1717859/islam-there-is-no-brexit-plan

Indeed - and a referendum is a means of advising parliament, not democratically entrenching a decision as an election does.

A brexiteer set up the petition. Hoisted by your own petard. http://news.sky.com/story/1717815/second-referendum-petition-was-set-up-by-outer

I've had a few people tell me to go back to where I come from in the past few weeks. I've now had a 3rd generation British friend of Indian decent get told "Brexit! F*ck off paki" in the street and another be told to go home despite being white British because he looks like a bit of rasta. Have Leave given the fascists a licence to unleash their real feelings?

messageRe: Stunned new Posted by Jules-and-Boo Today, 12:15PM It does not mean the banks will all move out of London - the banking passport will ensure movement across EU zones. It is clear you don't work in or understand the financial sector. Passporting is by no stretch of the imagination guaranteed. There are considerable internal politics in the EU which could hamper this, and passporting without movement of people is particularly unlikely. The yank banks tend to want to stay here if they can because they prefer the infrastructure and regulatory oversight here, however, that will be contingent on passporting. For the Japanese and Swiss banks, there is very little incentive to stay as the whole point of having a base here was to be in the EU - its cheaper to run a third country branch with passporting rights in lots of other jurisdictions. For the Germany and French banks, there will be considerable political motivation to be seen to retreat back into Europe. As such, the banks have contigency plans to shift operations. Whilst in some cases this will involve relocations (and also mean the UK no longer benefits from the tax revenue), with ancilliary functions at the lower end of the pay scale there will be redundancies. As well as passporting, several major pieces of EU legislation require equivalence decisions to be issued by the Commission for certain activities to occur by third countries. These take years. Why on earth would we wait around twiddling our thumbs waiting for years for this mess to be sorted out? Legal hurdles aside, in practice this level of uncertainly stalls markets. In the 2008 crisis, the contagion was produced by a relatively small group of products and there was hope for restoration of the status quo. There is no such hope here. The City has been hobbled, permanently. I get that people didn't necessarily understand all of this without particular industry knowledge. I still don't understand why they chose to listen to simplistic explanations either put forward by morons or those with an agenda rather than the people who actually do know how it works.

In case you want to do something about the train cancellations to ED, this petition closes in 8 days: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/116904

How is this not directly relevant to ED??

For those who haven't clicked the link, the petition is only a few hundred shy of the 10K mark and will close in 8 days.