JoeLeg

That's international. I very much doubt the various AOC/DOP etc agreements would be affected. Although the vast majority are based in Europe, for example Kobe beef has to come from the Kobe region of Japan; anything else is simply Wagyu. There's similar examples from America. So no, I doubt it. Fishing quotas on the other hand...very different battleground. The entire fishing industry is pro-Brexit (and for once I understand why), and that would be one heck of a fight.

I'm actually quite a fan of British wine and champagne, and look forward to seeing what will give Lambrusco and bad Chenin Blamc a run for its money!

DulwichFox Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > So I voted to leave... Does that make me a > Racist. I never said you were - in fact I took pains to point out that I definitely was not. > > So do not dare suggest for 1 Minute I am Rasist, > xenophobic, Homophobic, Sexist. > As I say, I didn't do any of that. My disagreement with you is not of that nature. And it sounds like we were at some of the same events. As I say, it sounds like there's many things we would agree on. Just not Brexit. I now return you to your regular thread.

Please don't bring Lewis Schaffer back out of the woodwork...

uncleglen Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > There is a plan- it's all laid out in the EU rules > and regulations etc....since we signed up to the > EU (and Lisbon-what a con...that's when the rot > set in...) we signed up to the rules about the > exit. It will all be there- there are enough > academics involved in EU law and politics that > there will be no shortage of consultants. > While all that is going on over 2 years or so, the > Government will be able to formulate a strategy. All that is fine if they trigger Article 50, which is what you are describing. If that's what's happening - either now or later - then they need to come out and say it. Because that's what you voted for.

Jules-and-Boo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The referendum is - in itself - less that that. > It's an indication of what the electorate want. > > The fact that it has brought out so many lies, > dirty-=dealings - uncomfortable truths - here and > across EU - means that this will never go back to > Business As Usual. > > Pandora's box of opinion and mettle has been well > and truly opened. > > Now, it's time to do something about it. Agreed. But what? If we know anything right now it's that we have no idea what will happen next. Makes it hard to work out what we - as an electorate - should be asking for. Obviously as an electorate we've spoken regarding the EU. But will they press on with Article 50, and if so then when, and if not then what?

If Leave had a plan they should've spoken up by now. I admit it's possible they are working out details, or maybe just waiting until Monday morning to announce, but I think that's a mistake. People want stability and clarity (from politicians, ha! Yes I get the irony), as I hope we hear from them very soon. I get that we need to wait for a new PM and associated govt to be in place before things move forward, but some indicator of intentions is owed to the general public, even if they need time to resolve details. Uncertainty helps no one.

Jules-and-Boo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Joe, I wasn't actually pointing all of that > directly at you. I was speaking generally, about > some of the posts on here. > > It's not hard to scroll through them and see who > is being a bit out of order. > > Ithink we've even started swearing at each other > now (nice work WM) Ok, apologies then for going off at you. But I honestly feel this is unprecedented territory, and we do have racists coming out of the woodwork, and this time the politicians - on both sides - have gone too far. I'm riled up, we're all riled up. If I come across as something that the website will bleep out, then I apologise - I'm generally not. But on this matter I feel truly angry. I'm not sure how to deal with it.

Jules-and-Boo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > It's really not fair to call people racist Joe. In > fact it's downright out of order. I doubt anyone > cares what colour your wife is - but than you for > letting us know. Excuse me, but exactly who did I openly call racist? And if you want a open debate then drop the sarcasm. > Emotive or not, it's just a reflection on > yourselves how you treat other people - there are > plenty of insults / put downs which we could all > rise above. No it's not. It's a reflection of how scared my wife is now. > > It is shocking how poor our government is - but if > taht is actually a surprise to anyone, you > probably needed a wake up call.... there are many > people who have noticed it. > > Cameron quits to teach Boris a lesson.... how > puerile. Absolutely pathetic behaviour. > I completely agree. Didn't say I liked what he's done. > Do you really think that sniping at each other is > going to make anything better - except perhaps how > you feel yourself? I'm not sniping at anyone. I will defend how I feel and how my wife feels. If I get worked up its because I'm not willing to tolerate people telling me that this isn't something I should be worried about. > > If - yes, If - we had a governemnt with spine then > leading change would be a better story - we would > have direction and then some expectation of what > we would strive for in our global trade deals. > Change - at any level - is daunting. Let alone > when you don't knw where you're going. It doesn't > mean that it has to be bad - but it's a very basic > thing to know where you want to go. > > There's a number of people on here who I just > thank God I don't have disagreeing with me on a > day to day basis. I hope you don't behave like > this at home. Well you don't know me, and I don't know you, so I suppose it's easy for both of us to make assumptions about the other. So consider this; I am very angry about the direction my country is going, and not willing to let the future of our children be used as a political tool. I'm not sure exactly why I've said that you object too, but I assure you there are plenty like me who feel that this is one political machination too far.

DulwichFox Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Louisa.. > > My decision was partly based on the Lies and > exagerated scare mongering of David Cameron and > George Osborne. > It was disgraceful .. And the Leave campaign was any better? Well, I suppose we can all choose the liars we prefer in that case. I prefer those that do not share a bed with racists and xenophobia. Please note I am emphatically NOT accusing you or anyone else of those prejudices, only pointing out that I think the Leave campaign allowed certain groups who do think that way to think they were getting what they wanted - foreigners out. > > Effectivly the ?350m is correct. It's like your > wages.. You get what is left after Tax. National > Insr. & stoppages. > > The ?350 is a figure that is ring fenced. We are > then told where we can spend some of it. There is > about ?61m left > which is like a fee for Brussels to do the paper > work. > > Thats it in its simplest form. Can you provide me with a link that explains that in more detail? The Leave campaign were pretty clearly insinuating that the NHS could have that money, a claim they have now openly backtracked on. I'd be interested to see how it is essentially correct. > > I did not want this in 1975.. This was the 2nd > chance.. this WAS the second Referendum.. > > Do not feel bad about it. Fair enough there, and if you've always felt this way them I respect that. But the world has changed a lot since then. The EU has many problems, and there's areas where I suspect you and I would agree, but there is more that links us than divides us, and I feel it's a terrible error to turn our back completely. It's also opened the door to the extreme right wing, who were are going to hear more of if/when Boris reneges on Article 50.

Toffee Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Actually, my xomment was not about anyones race, > gender or status. I truly hope and pray that > leaving the EU will improve your childrens chances > for their future. I am not racist by any meansand > im sure my comments have not come across as such. > I wish us all the very best for the future. All right, I take you at your word. But we're in it now, and I hope for all our sakes we can pull through, because if not you will feel it just as much as me, my wife and my little girls.

Toffee Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Thank you. Always blame the older generation for > everything. After all, we are all ignorant, > pathetic wastes of space that should be put to > death asap. Its our fault for everything. Have > some respect. Am I blaming you for everything? No. No I'm not. I didn't call you ignorant, pathetic or a waste of space, so don't put words in my mouth. I called you selfish, and I stand by that. I have two young children and a black wife who was born outside the UK. You've just told my kids that they can't have opportunities you took full advantage of, and my wife that she isn't welcome, despite holding British citizenship since she was 4 years old. You've just told us that things were better 40 years ago. Really? My wife doubts it. I doubt it. Have some respect? Respect for you is not automatic just because you're older. I learnt a long time ago in the Army that respect is earned. Don't think by demanding it while taking away my children's future that you will get it.

Rubbish Foxy, absolute rubbish. Cameron resigned to screw Boris, it was his parting 'gift'.

DulwichFox Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Of course there is Panic and comfusion.. > > It't the first time in 40+ years that any P.M. > has had to make any decision for themselves.. > Brussels has done that for them... > > Now we just need to listen what the U.S tells > us.. > > Having The US and Brussels was like having 2 > Anti-Viruses on your P.C. Conflict. > > Foxy. Total rubbish. Remember Thatcher? Remember Blair? The Leave campaign didn't have a plan for what to do when they won, because they didn't think they would. Now Cameron has dropped the whole steaming mess on their laps and sodded off, they better figure it out fast.

Toffee Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Love your posts Foxy. Am with you one hundred > percent. There are too many people who arent old > enough to know what Britain was like before we > joined the EU. Ah, the sarcasm and condescension of the older generation rears its head. More than he racists and xenophobia, more than the protest votes that didn't really think Leave would win, it is you lot who have dragged the UK into this mess. By yearning for a Britain that is totally unfeasible on the modern world and that was probably not that great anyway, you've told the younger generation they must live by your rules, despite the fact that the world they are inheriting is totally different. In your selfish desire to 'take back control' - even though you don't even know what control that will be, as the Leave campaign is starting to admit, you've told everyone younger than you that they can clean up your mess. Yes, more of them should've turned out to vote. Yes, the Remain campaign should've done much better. But you forgot, or didn't care, that they will have to live with the consequences of your dewy-eyed remembrance of the Britain of your youth. Forty years ago the world was a very different place.

citylover Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > No crisis, wd voted out and it's all good. If you think there aren't problems on the horizon then you're either on medication or in total denial. I'm not sure I agree it's a crisis...yet...but the government needs to step up and give people some clear indicators of what will happen, and quickly. This is far from over.

Strangely I like all of these!

Jules-and-Boo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > People vote for reasons that apply to them > personally. Most of UK wanted out - and 40% of > London did too. I'm not really clear what you mean by that - yes, 40% of London wanted out. That's means 60% wanted to stay! But overall 51.9% wanted to leave, so here we are. > There are no doubt many varied reasons for both > sides to have voted - and votes for remain are as > likely to have been driven by fear of the unknown > (better the devil you know) as votes for leave > were driven by appetite for change/ > dissatisfaction. > > It's true that both political sides lied to get > the voters on their side. > > It's more true now, that we need to work together > - cross party collaboration - to get the best for > Britain and move forward. It may even bring > positive changes to the EU for the countries > remaining. It does not mean we will follow Norway > for a single market at all. But where will we go? The Leave vote was on the basis of Article 50; that's what they campaigned on. They didn't vote for a Norway deal, or any other deal, they made it clear they want to leave. I'm not sure how the Tories can navigate out of this one. You're right, we might get something good out of this; I hope so. > > It does not mean the banks will all move out of > London - the banking passport will ensure movement > across EU zones. I remain to be convinced about this. I think the banks will do what is best for them, and I doubt they've decided on that yet.

Essentially I feel that no one has got what they wanted out of this. Boris didn't want to win, he want to be Prime Minister, and hoped to lose by a narrow margin that allowed him to claim a moral victory and position himself for a run at 10 Downing Street. Those who voted Leave are wondering why Article 50 isn't happening yet. Labour is imploding, the Tories are confused. We need leadership and clarity to emerge from Westminster this week. Right now I have no idea what's going to happen, and that's terrifying.

Jules-and-Boo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Not all racists voted for Brexit - and not all who > votes for Brexit are racist. Generalisations are > really quite dangerous. Not sure I agree with the first point; I'd be interested to meet a racist who wants to stay in. Definitely agree with the second and third, but would point out there are dangerous generalisations coming from Leave voters. > > People on both sides of the vote fell foul of the > lies of each side. Each side have valid points to > make. Agreed. > > If anything, it's shown how weak our own governemt > is, how dismissive the EU are of the general > people and how necessary change is - in both > sections of this. > Again, agreed. But have we taken a step too far already? > The World is bigger than Europe and while it will > take time to settle and parties to reform - and > agreements to be made, the anger needs to cool. > Heated, angry decsions will do no good. Again I agree, but I worry that the more extreme Leave voters won't allow the political space for our leaders to make compromise or agreements. Remember that Farage said before the vote that a 52% win for Remain would trigger another referendum. Now that it's proven to be the other way around, he's strangely silent. I'm hoping both sides recognise that we are in uncharted waters, and assumptions about what 'should happen' are the most dangerous thing now.

midivydale Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Do people genuinely believe that the rest of > Europe has any interest at all in providing > Britain with a "Norway style" "deal"?! Well, that's a valid question. I'm not sure. I think they're waiting to see what we do officially before they show their hand. They lose nothing by staying silent for now.

They can't force Article 50 on us, and it looks to me like Merkel at least is trying to slow it down. I strongly believe nothing will happen until the new PM is in place. Will it damage us? Who knows? I think Germany wants to come to a reasonable agreement, but it all needs to be agreed on by every one else. Will Hungary force concessions on us? Will Romania? Will we find ourselves railroaded by the process into something worse than we had? I hope not, and as I say, I think Germany wants to do this nicely, but that all presupposes we go down the Article 50 route in the first place. Cameron has pulled off a master stroke, by dumping this into the lap of his successor. Those who voted Leave did so under the clear impression that Article 50 would follow. But as events are showing, that brings more problems than people were willing to discuss.

uncleglen Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > 8m people did not vote for whatever reason. The > Spanish are going to hold a general Election > because of the Wrong, their election is because the one last year produced an unworkable government. Please check your facts. I expect they will elect > the person who will kick out the expats.....and > then watch their economy go down the tubes > quicker. Unlikely, in my opinion. I'd be interested if you evidence that they intend to kick out expats. > Unless they are worried about all their under 25s > who are in the UK...and there are a lot of > them... How many is 'a lot'? > It was interesting to note that 40% of Scots want > to leave the EU- I know that their young people > are finding it very difficult to get places in > prestigious unis because of the attraction of no > fees to EU students. And 60% want to stay. That's a much higher % than the rest of the U.K. (London expected) so I'm not sure what you're point is. > Our young people probably do not know enough to > make an informed decision, most of them are > influenced by the sensational, emotive junk on > social media. Given that there's a fair number of Leave voters already upset at the reversal on the ?350 million figure and unhappy at the idea free movement might stay, plus Boris and Gove seeming reluctant to push for immediate implementation of Article 50, I'd say that both sides have been mis-informed. There's sensational, emotive junk all over the place, and now is he time for calm heads and a clear analysis of where we are at. Boris Johnson needs to step up this week and clearly state what he sees as he way forward; right now there is confusion over what exactly has just been voted for. Many Leave voters would say they did not vote for a Norway style deal, for example. > > The following stats from the Telegraph are very > telling > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/eu-refe > rendum-how-the-results-compare-to-the-uks-educated > -old-an/ > Given the demographic of the EDF, and London as a > whole, it is no surprise there is such strength > of feeling....I was not surprised by the result > because as the Archbishop of Canterbury said a few > weeks ago- it is always the poor and uneducated > (thanks to Lsbour's Crosland destroying grammar > schools, and failing to equip our young people > with a trade), who suffer under rises in > immigration. And this is the first time those who > have been dispossessed have been able to express > their feelings- I agree, and they've been done a terrible disservice by being lied to by the Leave campaign, who let them think there would be a drop in immigration, then reversed their position. Look at the Twitter arguments Dan Hannen MEP has had with VoteLeave Derbyshire for an example of what's coming. and you people spit on them Hmm, classy. No ones spitting on anyone. 'You people', eh? A phrase generally used by those who can't actually articulate why they don't like another group, so resort to insults. Let's stay above that please. There's an incredibly important debate starting now, we need to talk, not hurl abuse.

My word Foxy...the sheer quantity of ignorance in that post makes it hard to know where to start... ...so I'm not going to bother. Except to say that you've completely misunderstood the nature of pop-ups and why people do them. I could explain it to you but you've already made up your mind, so I'm not going to waste my time. "Retirement in the sun..." - oh you do make me chuckle...Do you actually, like, KNOW anyone in the industry? Ever spoken with the people who run restaurants or pop-ups? No? Didn't think so.

Mick Mac Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > My post wasn't intended to show how well it was > doing - but to reflect that ?20k of costs per week > is a hell of a lot to clear before you are even > profitable. its not an easy business model. I understood your point, I'm just expressing surprise at the figures. They are highly unusual, but good luck to them if they can do it. And as you say, most people have no comprehension of the costs involved, or how fast it can all collapse if you do t stay on top of it.