JoeLeg

Old head chef left, the (then) sous chef ran for ages without being paid for it while the owners dragged their feet, eventually installing some (allegedly) mate of theirs who wasn't up to it. The sous left (last I heard had gone to work at the French Cafe restaurant on Forest Hill Road), and the food generally continued on a downward trend. No one I know has gone back in a while, so they maybe turned it around by now. Still not great practice.

Yes, maybe DF, you might be told that. Or you might be taken seriously; either way, surely the right thing to do is approach the establishment in question first? It's a better approach which allows the resident to retain the moral high ground and show they are being reasonable with their complaint. If they still ignore you then by all means use platforms like the forum to make a case and get options. But even then I'd say that isn't what the OP was doing.

edborders Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Council just cut down two trees. 20 inch diameter. > On consecrated land. Total disrespect for nature, > the dead, the Church, and the law. They don't have > permission but they did it anyway. Shameful. Is > this the way you want your council to act? Is this > the way you want your Labour Party to act? > > Lewis Schaffer > Http://www.savesouthwarkwoods.org.uk I'm sorry, but it looks like they DO have permission. I appreciate this is something you feel strongly about, but if the church aren't fighting them on this then I think it's a lost cause. They aren't actually acting illegally, however much you wish to (mis)interpret the law to say they are.

Squirrel74 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > There seem to be quite a few people who take the > opinion that because I live near to a pub, I don't > deserve peace and quiet like every other member of > society does? I moved to East Dulwich with my > daughter a year ago to look after my mother after > my father died. I cannot afford to buy/rent here > so have no choice but to live with my mother in > her home. Does this mean that I have no rights to > not be disturbed by others being inconsiderate? I > understand that there will always be more noise > than if I lived on a residential street, however, > surely playing loud music until 2am is not a > reasonable level of noise for a pub surrounded by > residential homes? What you need to do is go and talk to the manager of the pub rather than coming on here thinking it will get results. If you'd already spoken to them and the problem continued then yes, by all means sound off here. But at least do Cherry Tree the courtesy of talking directly to them first. Who knows, they might actually be able to sort it out? Or did you just want to complain?

Hope they show more sense with these chefs than they did at Exhibition. There's a reason the food went downhill there.

edborders Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > They cut down two trees. Massive trees in > consecrated area. Peter John Vikki Mills et al > total distracted for nature, for the Church, for > law and for local people. The total opposite of > what Labour should be, oposite o > Kf what the council should act like. Illegal. No > permission. 'Distracted for nature'? Have you been on the sherry?

Like I say, enjoy those opinions mate.

Edited and deleted because I started a rebuttal and then realised its just not worth it, life is too short. Enjoy your opinions.

Louisa Wrote. > > I'm knocking the Oyster yes, I'm not knocking > people's reasons for eating them though. I'm > simply suggesting the taste isn't the only reason > ALL people eat them, I think any reasonable person > would accept that as fact. I am 100% consistent > with my argument > > Louisa. NOW you're suggesting that - you weren't before. So no, not 100% consistent.

Sue Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > DulwichFox Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > People who really like fish go to Sopers.. > Those > > who claim to like fish go to Moxham's cos its > more > > expensive and in East Dulwich. > > > > > Oh FFS. > > Perhaps they go to Moxham's because they live in > East Dulwich and Moxham's is in East Dulwich? > > Oh no, can't be that, they must go there purely > because it's MORE EXPENSIVE, silly me :)) In fairness Moxons does benefit from its location and the fact it puts on a good show as being a reasonably priced fishmonger. The fact is Sopers is far superior and better prices; Jasons told me more than once about people who come to him and are shocked at how much cheaper he is, given that his product is at least as good if not better than Moxons. It's like William Rose - they aren't actually (in my personal, subjective opinion) particularly outstanding as a butcher, but location and hype count for a lot. I think a fair number of ED denizens probably wouldn't want to buy fish in Nunhead, but then that's their loss. Trust me, Jason isn't about to go broke, there's plenty of people who know he's better and go there.

Louisa Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Whatever floats your boat. Oysters are eaten to > make the person feel good, they enjoy the process > of eating it and the price, that's my opinion. I'm > not knocking it > > Louisa. Firstly you're wrong - a lot of people actually enjoy the flavour, so your statement is incorrect. Secondly you ARE knocking it, your previous posts made that pretty clear. Seeing as you mentioned it, why don't you stroll down to Jason at Sopers one day and ask him what kind of people buy his oysters, his lobster, his crab and so on? You might get an interesting answer.

Louisa Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Who cares how much they cost. They're a pointless > food article regardless. No flavour or taste, just > an excuse for people to pontificate the imagined > exclusivity of the process in which you consume > these things. > > Louisa. Some people say the same about Harvester restaurants... Of course, one of the things about food and taste buds and personal opinion is that it's all subjective, there is no right or wrong - hey, a lot of people love durian and natto, despite me thinking those are two of the evilest flavours on the planet. Are they wrong? Am I? Neither. Cos it's all subjective. You don't like oysters. Nor do I. But there's a lot of folk who do, and they don't eat them just for the thrill of spending money. Go ask Richard Corrigan, a man who grew up dirt poor and now owns Bentleys, why he loved them even when he lived in poverty in rural Ireland. Can't have been the cost... Snobbery goes both ways. Food should be above that.

Grok Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Youre the only one mentioning colour here. If you > can read you will see im saying there are no go > zones and it includes east london as elsewhere and > police do not routinely go there as therevwould be > a riotvevery night of thevweek. That imo is a no > go zone. Under cover of the no go zones, as you > gather nefarious activities carry on unabated > previsely because the police do not go there on a > regular patrol basis.and it includes all > criminality such as those that would engage in > extremist activities. > There is a world of difference between the fact (which I agree with btw, but that isn't the discussion bring had here) that some bits of London are high crime areas within which the police use more 'intense' tactics when they go in, and the theory that this has translated into Islamic-dominated 'no-go' zones which are breeding grounds for extremists. The radicalisation is happening, but not like that. It's a more insidious process (again that's a different discussion), but it has not translated into territorial dominance of East London by extremists. And by implying it has (which you seem to be doing) you are indeed talking about British (ie mainly white) people vs Islamic (mainly Arabic/African) people. So skin colour does become a factor. Though I'll concede it's a minor one, as there are several examples of radicalised white British Muslim converts who go to Syria and do a modern day Lord Haw Haw. Anyway - localised crime/extremist Jihadis, not the same thing, I guess is my point.

Grok Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Prove it wrong then? You cant. Try getting out the > pub and actually see whats going on. There sre no > go areas everywhere, including southwark. There > are estates in peckham that police do not patrol > and only go there mob handed if called out. But > youre gonna call that bollocks too huh? Get out of > the pub! There's a difference between places where the police will automatically go in large numbers - because they know they'll probably need them - and places where the police are too scared to go in. You know full well you were trying to suggest that parts of East London are totally off limits to police and white people because they've been turned into completely Islamic areas. Don't make out that you weren't. And all you have to back this up is "have heard before". Not a compelling argument I would suggest. Segregation is a problem in London, but the police aren't scared to go anywhere; they just make sure they have the resources they feel they need. Donald Trump is talking shite, and you aren't that far behind.

IVAN EDAKE Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > maxxi Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > There! You See Old_Bloke? THAT'S how you do it. > > You parody yourself so utterly that it isn't > even > > worth anyone calling you an ignorant, bigoted, > > paranoid, half-witted, brain-dead tw*t. > > > > Live and learn eh? > > > So no one is allowed to have a different view from > you? Stupid idiot. Stay classy Ivan.

Louisa Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Apparently it's reversed snobbery when someone > like me mocks the posh incomers who spend a > fortune on coffee and organic carrots etc, but > it's ok for them to change an entire neighbourhood > and force house prices sky high and we should all > shut up and not say boo to a goose. > > Louisa. (...I'm probably going to retreat this...) No one (at least not me) is saying we should shut up and accept it, doffing our caps deferentially to the new wave of ED money...but I'm interested in what you propose can actually be done? I remember when Blue Mountain opened and my mum, a resident since the 60's, said it wouldn't last six months. Well, it's just had, what, it's 20th anniversary? I even worked there briefly! And after it came, well, everything else. What was the tipping point? There's plainly demand for these places and I agree it's driven out a lot of people, but it's happening all over London. Soho, Chinatown, Spitalfields to name but a few. With 'gentrification' usually comes jobs, and that tends to let people ignore a lot of what happens to a neighbourhood. But it also brings greed. I readily admit I have no idea how to strike the right balance, so I'm genuinely interested in how you think it can be done.

DulwichFox Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The Supermarkets don't like bent carrots and the > like so wont buy them from the Farmers.. > > So there are those that fill up a Transit van for > ?50.00 ? with wobbly fruit and veg and sell them > for 3 times the supermarket price to those who > believe they must be organic and taste better and > in doing so > they are also saving the planet.. > > Foxy They may not be saving the planet, but wouldn't you agree it's better to at least sell and eat those wobbly fruit and veg than chuck them away? If someone is willing to buy them than that's a good start. Personally I think the supermarkets should be prosecuted for what they do to some of their suppliers, but that's a different conversation.

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,1605766,1607324#msg-1607324

DadOf4 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > it would be interesting to disucss what ED would > be like now if had developed the way that the OP > hoped It'd probably look a lot like Lewisham and Catford have in that time; ultimately unchanged and stuck in some weird time warp with stagnating house prices and a corresponding stagnation in the local area. While that means some people like it because it's 'the same as it's always been', and that's a comfort to them, others will move away or never go there. I think that places, like people, need to develop and change and recognise that change can be beneficial. We can argue all day about whether ED (and now Peckham these days) has lost that character which made it unique and attractive, but if it hadn't changed at all then I think it would be even worse.

Jeremy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The "real London people" have cashed in and moved > out to Kent. They get their semi-detached houses > with a fish pond, and del-boy style bar stocked > with brightly coloured liqueurs. We get 1200 sqft > houses in a self-congratulatory enclave of organic > produce, and a short-ish commute into town (which > we need, because we work 8am-7pm to pay our > ridiculous mortgages). > > Everyone's a winner. Possibly the most succinct description of the change in demographics round here that I've ever read.

old_bloke Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > JoeLeg - are you Jeremy Corbyn under another > name? > > You spout very similar rubbish > > The truly angry, bitter, bigoted person is you old > chap with your constant name calling and label > pinning > > You certainly conform to the mindset of the middle > classes that have descended on East Dulwich > > Any one that knows the area can tell you're not > from the area and probably not from London at > all. > > You have the ring of Chipping Norton about you AH HAHAHAHAHA,oh wow that's funny! Jeremy Corbyn eh? No, sorry. I don't even read the Guardian... Thanks for making me smile on a wet Monday morning. I mean, I know you wanted to make me say 'oh no, the big internetz hard man has found me out for the blow in that I am' but that ain't gonna happen. "Not from round here"? Well, I'd like to thank you for confirming my opinion of you - and I'm sorry to disappoint you but I really am one of the locals. Anyway, DulwichBornAndBred put it much better than me; it's a love/hate thing these days, though in you and done others the hate seems to be winning. Maybe you and Ivan can form a self help group. You know the irony? You're both right that the demographic changes in the area have damaged (IMO) the old community of ED in some ways, but a) I'm not convinced that it wasn't an inevitable by-product of wholesale changes being seen across London and b) going online and bitching about vegetarians and placenta bread just makes you look less like someone with a valid point and more like a hateful twat.

old_bloke Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Why is it all these yuppie types think someone is > angry because they express an opinion > > "Wow, you really are angry" > > Really? > > Just saddened by the demise of the working classes > to be replaced by people who come on forums and > use !wow" and "awesome! or other similar upper > class sayings > > Lots of the answer on here rather prove my point > especially when you read claims of having "lived > here all my life" > > Yeah all right What the heck, I'll bite one last time then ignore the troll... I was born in Dulwich Hospital, grew up on Crystal Palace Road, went to primary and secondary school in the area and now I live with wife and two kids 20 minutes walk from my childhood home. So yeah, I am from round here. You're angry because you think the people who took over this area don't belong here. You think it belongs to you and what you consider to be a decent person; you think the upper class (however you define it) shouldn't have come into your world. And you think things were better in your day. Well, they weren't. That's never been true. You're bigoted and embittered and wishing that life confirmed to your view. But the truth is you just don't like these people and don't want to share your works with them. Tough. (Still waiting for you to define what a proper Londoner is, by the way).

old_bloke Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Yes I have > > It's infested with rather strange and rather posh > people > > Like I said nothing like it was when I was a boy. > > Where have all the real London people gone And who are 'real London people'? You, presumably? Me too - I've never lived anywhere else. So why don't you tell me what makes one? And why they/you have more of a right to live here then anyone else? "Infested"! Wow, you really are angry. Of course it's nothing like your youth. Show me anywhere that is? Things change, places change, and I share some of your concern that this area is being turned into a soulless husk, but I'm not going to tell those who came here that they aren't welcome. They bought money and created jobs and that isn't a bad thing. In the end it's called capitalism. As I say, good luck fighting it.

old_bloke Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > It's full of the middle classes with their middle > class habit and Guardian reading > > How many vegetarians on here I wonder > > Not the Dulwich I knew - used to be full of decent > working class Londoners Much like Otta, I was born here and grew up here. I don't share your view of ED - you sound angry about a certain type of person who you seem to feel shouldn't be here. "How many vegetarians?" What, they are decent folk, you don't trust someone who won't eat a proper working class fry up? And as for saying it was full of decent people - mate, there were crack heads and smack heads living two doors down from us in the 80's! You yearn for a time when your local manor was full of diamond geezers and gold hearted girls, everyone knew their place and kids showed respect. But it was never like that, and people with money came here and changed it beyond recognition. Personally I think it's on the verge of going to far, but at the same time there's an inevitability about gentrification that can only be resisted through action and protest. Going on a forum and bitching that the wrong kind of people are in your neighbourhood is bigoted, pointless and ultimately will do nothing to alleviate the bitterness you plainly feel about people whose values your are intolerant of. Good luck with that.

apbremer Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The basic problem is that the little scumbag who > did it will only get a slap on the wrist from the > soppy judicial system. No deterrent or punishment. > Ridiculous. The Bleeding Hearts have been running > the asylum for too long. - Nope, not worth it. (Original post deleted. Edited because I can't be bothered to argue with idiocy like this.)