P.O.U.S.theWonderCat

Farron has categorically stated that he doesn't think homosexuality is evil. He also voted for gay marriage. This whole line of questioning is a Tory tactic to attempt to undermine what they clearly regard as a threat to the landslide they want. And, I should say for the record, I am not a Tory-basher - I don't believe in political partisanship.

Indeed Brian. I had someone do an astonishingly good job for a fraction of the money you quoted. I have to say I was taken aback when you followed up the enormous quote with the hard sell on finance. That isn't providing for different budgets - that's charging even more in the long run by putting someone into debt to afford your services. As I said, you were THOUSANDS more than the person who did the job in the end. If I had checked the posting history of a significant proportion of people posting on this thread, I might not have wasted my time with getting you to quote.

I have to say I had a similar experience. They were far and away the most expensive quote for the job, coming in at several thousand pounds more than the person I ended up using.

Robert Poste's Child Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- On > the radio recently someone mentioned how the boom > in house prices has given rise to 'attitude' in a > way that didn't exist in areas like this twenty > years ago. Maybe the two are related? That sounds like good old-fashioned snobbery to me. People with and without money are equally as likely to be selfish and inconsiderate.

Rants have ripples, Rahrah. And yours have sunk me.

I give up :(

I should say I also get how hard it is to rise above your anger and tribalism. Unless a miracle happens out of Brexit, my family could be torn apart and I've experienced personal abuse based on my not being British in the past few months, so it is taking all my strength not to resort to them v us crap. But if I don't try, who will? I'm getting more and more despondent about the potential answer to that. Surely we're better than that, aren't we?

rahrahrah Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I don't see where I've been hypocritical btw. And frankly that is exactly the problem. You are spending so much time focusing on what the other tribe is doing wrong that you can't see that you are behaving the same way in many respects. You are objecting to the right blaming the left for everything and yet you are doing exactly the same thing from the other direction. There is an extremely complicated set of circumstances that have lead to where we are today. It is neither the right's nor the left's (as whole) fault - that's an incredibly huge oversimplification.

So you're doing exactly the same thing as them. What on earth does that achieve except allowing you to vent your anger at your perceived enemies? It's like watching children shout at each other.

Indeed - the hypocrisy is coming from both sides. Please don't start going on about taking responsibility unless you're prepared to take your own advice.

Rahrah, my last sentence goes for everyone. You're doing exactly the same thing by attributing opinions to the "moderate right" or "the right" in general. How on earth is another lecture about how "[insert political tribe here that isn't mine]" are doing the wrong thing helping? Christ I get it that everyone is angry and unsettled, but I am SO sick of bloody tribalistic politics and sweeping generalisations. Why can't people show some grace?

Loz Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Is it really too hard to understand? > > One of the things left-wing people often say is.... Yet, this name-calling is just > based in hate. > I am still heartbroken we are leaving the EU and I > am seriously worried about the next four years > under Trump (although Pence worries me more). Yet > if we don't come together and talk more and people > not try and control what is 'acceptable' to debate > then we're in for a lot more. In which case, I beg of you to lead the way and stop attributing opinions and motives to "The Left". I'm not suggesting you are personally doing this, but this whole "Blame the Left"/"Let's undo PC" is being used to justify some utterly frightening points of view on the extreme right. I know there are left-wing voters who do the same thing (and I have been spending as much time as I can talking to friends in the Labour party to see if they can do something about trying to change this dialogue) but that shouldn't be a reason to do this. If you are on the right of centre, claim your ground back. Stop letting the more extreme right-wing points of view dictate the agenda and unwittingly becoming a tool in the same propaganda that is being used to justify stuff like holocaust-denial (which someone did to me yesterday). The only way we're going to get out of this is if we starting listening to each other.

Loz, I know someone who used to work with that chap when he worked for Putin's TV network. He's excellent at delivering very right-wing/fascist propaganda disguised as "common sense".

Please don't be disingenuous, Dave. You were clearly not intending it as a compliment or the literal dictionary definition. And please point me to where I have made any assumptions about your political leanings. I have no idea where on the political spectrum you lie, other than that you don't seem to think much of liberals.

Oh and as for left wing people being amongst some of the most unpleasant you've come across, I envy you. Some of the stuff I've personally experienced from the far right in the past couple of months scares the crap out of me.

Yes it is a rationale. The kind of companies that the movement is targeting and those that are remotely likely to pay attention to this are not going to represent the entire ad revenue of the Daily Heil. It will go on. I just won't be paying indirectly for it. I appreciate your comments about the left are not directed to me in particular and I share your dislike of Momentum, but I would also like to make the general observation that the tendency of certain people to use label anything they don't like as "liberal", "lefty", "generation snowflake", "political correctness gone made", "virtue signalling" etc. etc. as a way of trying to shut down criticism is getting increasingly worse. Whilst there are moral fascists on the left, it's incredibly insulting to impute that motivation to everyone on that side, and frankly it p1sses me off that everyone in the centre or on the right is being lumped in together. It's simplistic, demeaning and wholly inaccurate. (edited for typos then because I needed to add my most hated right-wing shut down term).

Good on you Jim - and Foxy too.

You don't need to provide the same level of self-sufficiency if you've been here more than 10 years continuously though. That right is obtained via the HRA and has a different test.

DaveR Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > See Otta, you've been told. Next it will be > suggested that you're a closet sympathiser. The > illiberal so-called liberals who only want to hear > the 'right' message FFS, why do you feel the need to call everyone with a different opinion to you as a "liberal" (which you are clearly using as a perjorative? It's entirely possible to not be on the left side of politics and still think that newspaper doesn't deserve the title of journalism. Try not to make assumptions as to the political leanings of complete strangers, there's a good chap.

Otta, you've selectively quoted me. If you read the rest of my post, you will see my rationale for why it isn't gagging.

Nonsense - this is not gagging. DM will still continue even if John Lewis pulls funding. But it does mean that those of us who want to support retailers with a better ethical track-record don't find ourselves indirectly funding the Daily Heil.

uncleglen Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > DaveR is right....let's gag the press unless it is > reporting sweetness and light according to the > lefty brigade As someone who isn't part of the "lefty brigade", I take enormous exception to the DM being represented as it's antithesis. The DM is, at best, deeply immoral (seriously UncleGlen - do you really endorse children being described sexually? If so, fvcking ick) and, at worst of late, coming close to if not over the borderline of legality. I am sick to death of the extreme right like the DM brigade claiming ownership of the middle ground.

I'd have said a more accurate definition is those who feel disenfranchised who live in country areas. It may not be positive, but it's more neutral and I'd argue more factual.

Jules-and-Boo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Malumbu - thanks for that! Really interesting; > > I particularly liked the phrase "Rural > left-behinds" Cutting to say the least. > Stinging. If not downright nasty. > > Assumed definition: "a section of society that > no-one wants or gives a toss about, who don't fit > in with the glamour and glitz of the First World". Why assume a negative definition? Promoting class snobbery is hardly helpful.

keano77 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I'm beginning to wonder whether the angst caused > to many by the results of our referendum and the > US election has exposed a serious failing of > liberal democracies - namely that generation > snowflake and the helicopter parents responsible > for producing such safe-space little darlings have > been left unprepared for the real world where you > get winners and losers and they have difficulty > grasping that people hold different views that > they may not agree with. Firstly, the right to protest and providing opposition and challenge to the incumbents is a fundamental part of democracy. Judging by your perjorative tone, I'm guessing you are more conservative. Would you expect, upon Labour winning, that the Tories and all their supporters threw their hands up in the air and said "Well that's alright then. The people have spoken. Let's do nothing for the next few years."? If so, you would be supporting a weakening of democracy. Secondly, when you use terms like "generation snowflake" and "helicopter parents", you are betraying a very narrow-minded point of view. If you had sensible observations to make on the topic, you wouldn't need to resort to perjorative terms and sweeping generalisations. I really do hope you're not one of those people who complains about political correctness, because this is exactly the same thing from a different direction. And before you write off my opinion because you think I'm on a different side of the political fence, I'm not a Labour supporter.