Mick Mac

france 0-3 Ireland. (richard dunne hat trick and terry henry sent off for crying.).

Anyone been in to check it out?

I knew you would have the answer Hal. Nice one. You are our personal forum wikipedia. But your responses are not good news for the fish i fear.

Devils advocate: What would eat the fish is we had not caught it and would it eat it alive? Only the lucky fish get the "priest" / sharp knock on the head treatment from an angler. Would not be nice to be cooked alive though. Interesting that keeping its head/brain cool keeps it alive. This suggests as long as its brain is happy it does not feel the pain? and has it been gutted? does that mean it has no central nervous system? is it the central nervous system that communicates pain? I'm sure someone can answer all this questions - I have no clue.

Very interesting that candj. I love oysters. Not sure they are in pain when you squeeze lemon on them and they contract - they just don't like lemon. Children react the same way.

titch juicy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > is it any different to rick stein on the back of a > boat eating an oyster freshly plucked from the > deep? do oysters have a nervous system? (I don't know the answer btw)

Found a video on Youtube entitled: "Chinese speed cooking. Cutting, preparing and cooking snake and fish and serving while still alive" Was not sure I could watch it at work (in case it might make me sick). Might be brave enough to watch it later. Once saw on tv a few years ago some middle eatern country where they eat the brains of a live monkey through a hole in the table. The monkey is held under the table on a turntable. Worst thing I have ever seen on tv. Makes me feel sick to think about it.

JoJo09 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > To be absolutely clear on this, I do not feel > sympthathy for the paedophile. I feel discomfort > about the public execution and crucifixtion and > state sanctioned death penalty. I guess what has > muddied the waters is that I feel discomfort and > not outrage - which I would if this person were to > face the same punishment but for a different > crime, e.g. stealing. I'm appreciating the > interesting and worthwhile debate but PLEASE stop > suggesting I feel sympathy for this man or I'm > somehow trivialising his crimes, as I'm not. The > fact that the crimes are so horrendous means that > we are all motivated by emotion (that's hatred and > revulsion by the way Mick - not sympathy) as it is > impossible not to be - and does that cloud the > judgement? I do not agree with the death penalty > and feel uncomfortable about the public > crucifixtion. Fair enough JoJo. Understood. I have not yet had anyone say why it makes them uncomfortbale without that suggesting to me that they are thinking of the criminal. But I feel now that it is purely that they do not approve of the barbaric nature of the crucifiction. Which I agree is an awful way to be treated, but in this case I'm not going to lose any sleep over this guy.

Well, I'm glad you took it that way Mockney. I had after posting thought it was rathar rude and was going to amend it in the hope I would not annoy you! but was too busy at work. I did think that similar points to yours had already been made tho and we all agree and understand how we have over time achieved a more thoughtful form of justice to other jurisdictions.

well if thats not stating the obvious mockney i dont know what is. The point that is being debated most recently is whether if you disagree with the death penalty, you need therefore to feel discomfort or sympathy about a person executed for the most serious of crimes against children. I have no problem remonciling my objection to the death penalty with a total lack of interest in this mans sentence. I dont see the need to engage in debate to defend his very specific position. This imo is what the debate is about.

Prompted by Declan, it is now confirmed it will be on Sky. France Ireland on Sky

No - its depressing. Hugs.

> > > For great instrumental versions, the Nigel Kennedy > rendition is a favourite in our house (mrs.number5 > had to pull the car over the first time she heard > it), and the version from Brassed Off remains > great. Have just been listening to the brassed off version BN5 - and then had to watch Danny's "acceptance" speech again. Great film.

Keef Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Questions 4 > If the person in question 3 had committed the same > crime in the UK, what would be the appropriate > punishment? > Answer: whatever the court decides under English > Law > > Seriously? So the state shouldn't be questioned > then if that is how you feel. > > By the way, just want to say I'm not trying to > fall out with you Mick, and am not picking on you. > Just disagree on this one. I like a good argument Keef - you are not likely to fall out with me. But I'm not quite sure what that question means - I was stating that I agree with whatever is the appropriate sentence in the UK for the crime committed (provided its a life sentence that is).

HAL9000 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Mick Mac Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > But as regards Amnesty International > > Note: There's Britain and then there is the United > Kingdom of Britain and Northern Ireland. > > As far as I am aware they do not campaign on > behalf of individuals in conflict with the British > criminal justice system whereas they have > organised hundreds of campaigns on behalf of > foreign individuals under similar circumstances. > I know this subject matter is very contentious and unproven but to prove a point to Hal, here is an example of Amnesty working against the UK government:

i find your posts informative hal almost without fail. But as regards Amnesty International and their lack of interest in the uk justice system, they were active in highlighting human rights violations in northern ireland and this was a great help in having these issues brought to international attention.

what chance do ireland have now? Slim i guess. But if they were lucky enough to get the first goal then the pressure is then on france as they would fear conceding another. Need a bit of luck to say the least. But who knows.

:) Yes constable Lush.

Legalbeagle - I don't agree with the death penalty for any crime, let alone the ones you mention. But its not for us to make laws for other countries. I agree with the fight for human rights on most counts and that is a good way to approach inappropriate punishments that you have listed, and this needs to be approached with diplomacy. But its then up to them to change their own laws. They have to believe. But I don't feel discomfort for this particular person and his particular crime. Which is what the OP stated she felt.

Posted again as a response to Keef's question on previous page: Question 1 Are you in favour of the death penalty? Answer: No Question 2 Do you feel each country has the right to choose to have the death penalty in their country Answer: Yes Question 3 Are you concerned for a person, or does it cause you discomfort, if a person suffers death by beheading for raping and killing a child in a country where at the time of the crime, the death penalty is in place. Answer: No Questions 4 If the person in question 3 had committed the same crime in the UK, what would be the appropriate punishment? Answer: whatever the court decides under English Law I'm not in favour of the death penalty but where it exists it is what the people of that country understand as the norm and the approrpiate form of justice. We should not seek to feel superior to them by suggesting our way is the right way.

Question 1 Are you in favour of the death penalty? Answer: No Question 2 Do you feel each country has the right to choose to have the death penalty in their country Answer: Yes Question 3 Are you concerned for a person, or does it cause you discomfort, if a person suffers death by beheading for raping and killing a child in a country where at the time of the crime, the death penalty is in place. Answer: No Questions 4 If the person in question 3 had committed the same crime in the UK, what would be the appropriate punishment? Answer: whatever the court decides under English Law I'm not in favour of the death penalty but where it exists it is what the people of that country understand as the norm and the approrpiate form of justice. We should not seek to feel superior to them by suggesting our way is the right way.

Keef Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Sean said it Mick, you're either for or against. > If you take the circumstances of the crime in to > account in this case, then surely you'd do the > same in any case, in which case you're not really > against capital punishment for certain crimes. Very simplistic Keef/Sean. I'm against it. For all crimes. But I'm not protecting this guy from the laws of his country. Neither do I feel any discomfort about his punishment.

SeanMacGabhann Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Trying to have your cake and eat it a bit Mick > aren't you > Sean - to put it bluntly, I'm not in favour of the death penalty - Irish issues being one of the reasons. You don't have to educate me on that. The question I am asking myself is whether this case makes me feel uncomfortable in the same way the OP felt uncomfortable - it does not - is that fair enough. Keef - when I used the word "fine" is was intended as "good". I accept you are being consistent, I am not. [As for any defence or sympathy in respect of this man's "mental illness", I think Hal has covered that.]

Ok - on the general point we agree to not be in favour of the death penalty - on this particular case we disagree. You are being consistent, which is fine. In this case I take the circumstances of the crime into account and I have to say I don't mind how they execute him, so long as it is legal, because of the circumstances of the crime. I really don't make any attempt to feel any concern for him, whatever his death is, it seems more humane than the nature of the childs death.