Mick Mac

Keef I am against capital punishment in general and would vote against it if there was a referendum in this country. I don't get the chance to vote in SA, so can't influence that. The OP made reference to a specific case and the discomfort felt by the OP about the manner of this man's death - therefore my responses are based upon the specific case and what this man is being subjected to in return for his specific crime. The debate is not therefore about capital punishment in general. My feelings on that remain unaltered. I don't agree with it in general but I have no discomfort for what is happening to this man in return for his crime. Can you explain your discomfort, in relation to this man's particular circumstances and knowledge of his crime, without implying (my deduction) that you are being sympathetic or concerned about him. And without generalising the argument and just saying that you think all capital punishment is wrong.

It may be a serious question buts its hypothetical Keef - its clouds a debate about a real person committing a real crime and suffering a real and legal death sentence. What we are debating is a real punishment which is legal in the country in which it takes place and whether this mans death should cause discomfort. (and then whether that discomfort implies any sympathy for the rapist/child murderer).

As I say - it does not bother me how this man dies - to feel any discomfort for him, implies you care about him sufficiently to be concerned about how he dies, either his death, the barbaric nature of it or the public nature of it. To quote the OP: "So, what is the issue? the death penalty? the method chosen? the public aspect?" The thread was in direct reference to this particular indivividual and began with the OP saying the death made her feel uncomfotable. I feel no discomfort for him. I do not agree with the death penalty nor do I agree with punishments applied in the middle east for lesser crimes. That's a different debate. But in terms of this individual, his crime and his punishment - I does not make me feel uncomfortable. I can easily not concern myself with him and his plight. I have no time for him and no sympathy for how he dies. I would argue that any discomfort comes from people being overly concerned for people who do not deserve our concern. He is suffering the appropriate penalty for the crime as dictated by that state. if your discomfort is in respect of the death penalty in general the the OP should not have referred to a particular case.

my fav is johannesburg. Not seen live tho.

of celtic? Oh yes.

Great news - Then I can get a decent bottle of wine near the bus stop on the way home - good stuff. Just need Tea Amore to open earlier in the morning to get a coffee on the way to work and I'm all sorted on the drinks front.

Solipsism is the philosophical idea that one's own mind is all that exists.

I think you are determined to win this debate Matt....

You do a lot of looking at men Monica....

This thread sits alongside another called "racks of lamb in sainburys". Don't get the responses mixed up.

Was there a box on the players form marked "sentiment" Matt? If he won it, he won it. That's it really. Players may have taken into consideration the fact that he was getting on a bit and his performances were exceptional given his age, but its their choice.

That's great Monica - You must bring your Uncle to the Christmas Forum drinks...... Does he he know any Saw Doctors?????

???? Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > Seriously, to continually talk about him as a > stalker is not just untrue but also unfair when he > has no way of replying. the bloke lives round > here, drinks round here and is known by quite a > lot of people. Eh - and he owes me a tenner (have I mentioned that before.....). I'm off to track him down on Facebook. Think I'll try that "Forest Hill Morris Dancing Demolition Group" page first.

iaineasy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- I suppose there is a difference between > "follow me on twitter" and follow me down the park > though. :))

Fairytale of New York. That's a carol to me 2000 Miles Power of Love Little Drummer Boy That's all I know. Is Ave Maria a Christmas Carol, Monica?? I went to Lourdes in the summer once - they sang it every day - probably practising for Christmas... NB - I typed the above line and then checked google and it is a Christmas song (apparently) - but being an honest guy I have left my comment there in full expectation of much ridicule. (Still not sure why they were singing Christmas carols in the mid summer in the south of France tho).

I agree Legal - I also don't agree with the death penalty, but neither do I have any sympathy for peadophiles and they are subject to whatever law applies to the crime in the country where they commit their crime. But it surprises me for someone to say the death of a paedophile makes them feel "uncomfortable". It seems sympathetic to me. The sympathy should be wholly with the victim in this case. Its not necessarily revenge - you would have to ask the people who make the laws in the relevant country why they apply that punishment to determine whether it is revenge or not.

SeanMacGabhann Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > > But it's not about sympathy for the guilty - it's > about being better than them And neither is it about who has the moral high ground sean. In this case its more important than theory and principle, its about protecting children from rape and death.

localgirlwithdreads Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I agree with Mockney that it does not necessarily > deter. It does seem very extreme and I'm not so > thrilled about the idea of them being so savage > about it. However, it seems like quite a nice > change from the typical UK system where > paedophiles don't necessarily even get jailed at > all and they invariably get relatively lenient > sentences. If a serial shoplifter goes to jail, > gets released and shoplifts his little heart out > again and again and again, it's not a great result > but it is most certainly not the end of the world. > But paedophiles raping little kids - we simply > can't play around when it comes to that. It has > to be prevented. At any cost, I guess. Absolutely. Well put.

I think BBW was probably just curious and most people attend the drinks anyway, so are happy to be recognised - but I agree if you do not want to be recogised it seems strange that someone would go so far as to try to track down your facebook page.

Atila Reincarnate Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > kpc Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > The description of Richard Dunne "...his eyes > > bulging, his biceps and enormous hands ready to > > maim". > > I only realised Henry was playing when he acted as peacemaker at the end.... > Is this the same Richard Dunne that, according to > Mick Mac, was gonna have Henry in his pocket? > You've got to smile haven't you?

Unfortunately Keef, life does not mean life. In the UK they do get out - and they do reoffend. I'm against the death penalty, but for peodophiles, life should mean life. Its the worst crime I can think of. If the saudis want to kill this guy, as he has raped a number of children, I have no sympathy.

They already pay more for their food. That's where all their money goes.

Sometimes to understand these punishments we should perhaps try to picture the crime that has taken place. Picture a 3 year old child being raped. The victim here is receiving a much more humane death than than he inflicted on a toddler who was raped and left to die in the desert. This boy was 3 years old when he died. His rape screams were heard by noone - no doubt suffering post trauma stress, he was then left to die of thirst in the desert - his family will never recover, they have a life sentence of grief. Anyone who has a 3 year old child would not be able to contemplate such a horrible thing happening to an innocent child. This murderer is being sedated (if Hal is correct) and beheaded - he does not have any sympathy from me. I'd rather he was jailed for life, I don't agree with the death penalty, but it is a quicker death than the slow death he has inflicted on this innocent toddler. In the UK we distance ourselves from the crime and look at the punishment in terms of a legal debate taking place in a cosy courtroom or a cosy forum. This puts the criminal at an advantage as the crimes are so far from peoples mindset that we do not try to engage our minds in what horrors may have happened. This sword will stop other toddlers being raped and killed. Picture a child being raped, you are there and you hold the sword. Do you give this guy another chance. Most people will kill him to save the child. The executioner is saving other children. In the UK the same crime is treated as an illness and often these people are "treated" and released into society. Some commit the same crimes again. This "makes me feel uncomfortable". But I feel no discomfort for the man who committed this crime and his fate.

anelka and the french centre forward gignac look very sharp. France look a better team than italy did a few weeks ago. Ireland holding out ok tho and a few minor scares for french defence. A good referee keeping things calm. So far so good.

relieved to see michel platini is not the referee tonight. (Its prob his nephew instead.). There seems to be a real 6 nations style atmosphere at the ground.