Penguin68

but I think it's safe to assume the more hygienic shops are safer than the less hygienic ones. I think the issue may be more on circulation space within a store and the store's policy on numbers - most food is packaged so the problem is with proximity to other people. Most local/ corner shops have maximised their stocking space so minimising circulation. That may be their problem.

23/03, Number of reported UK covid 19 infections, 6650 23/03, Number of UK covid 19 deaths, 335 23/03, % of UK covid 19 deaths, 5.04%, 5 in every 100 infected people have died. It does not mean this, as only 10% of people with suspected Covid-19 are being hospitalised, and tests are only being conducted in hospitals on those 10% - so the likely actual number of infected in the UK is 67000 and the mortality rate is thus most likely around 0.5%. (The death figures are right, the 'infected' figures very wrong). The actual rubric, out of interest, is that xx people are dying 'with' Covid-19 - although we may assume that for most it is also 'of' it is worth remembering that most men over 80 who die, die 'with' prostate cancer - though most of these do not die 'of' it. We know that many deaths are of people with underlying medical problems - which are surely at least contributory. What the figures do mean is that for those ill enough to be hospitalised, the death rate is about 5% - but 90% or so of those who catch the disease are not ill enough to go to hospital. [indeed, there are numbers, it would appear, who have the disease, and may spread it, but who are asymptomatic and have no idea they are actually ill - it is these people in particular that the latest move to lock down the population is meant to be protecting us against]

There has been some evidence of scam private tests,or tests sold at 300% mark-ups. The 'solution' to your problem will be the anti-body test now being developed which will determine whether you have been infected by looking for Corvid-19 anti-bodies in your system. There is no evidence that the pregnant are at risk, this is just precautionary - and those most likely to be at risk (based on the fact that the virus is so new) are those in early term pregnancy - no one has yet gone through to term having risked early infection! This is merely a worst case scenario. If you have no symptoms - great - stay as isolated as you can if you are worried and carry on.

22/03, Number of reported UK covid 19 infections, 5683 22/03, Number of UK covid 19 deaths, 281 % of UK covid 19 deaths, 4.944% and gradually rising, tomorrow its likely to be in excess of 5%, i.e. 5 in every 100 infected people have died. No - this is simply wrong - the only people being tested at the moment, because of kit shortages, are those admitted to hospital and a few who are still at home but whose acute symptoms have continued for over a week. These are estimated to be about 10% of all actual cases (based on other countries' experiences)- so the UK infection rate is likely to be about 57,000 - with a death rate on that basis of around 0.5% - still dreadful of course, but not as dreadful. And as for the Southwark 'peak' - deaths are being registered for these statistics where they occur, I imagine - Southwark has a very important hospital in Kings and it is quite likely (I have no figures for this, but it's a reasonable assumption) that people are dying in Kings who aren't Southwark residents. So the actual Southwark figures may be less (other boroughs with high rates are also hosts to key hospitals, I have noticed). Until we have good statistics (which we don't at the moment, except for deaths) I wouldn't get too bogged down in the numbers - what we do know is that proper social isolation will reduce both infections and deaths, and that's what we should be focused on.

At the moment I fully understand why shopkeepers don't want cash transactions - not only is cash a more likely source of Covid-19 contamination, but if you've got cash takings you then have to queue up in a Bank (and how many of those are still open around ED?) risking infection from the people in the bank (or indeed Post Office). This does, of course, disadvantage those who are unbanked or don't like to use credit or debit cards. It's a balance of risk - and shopkeepers are deciding not to take too many risks (which is sort of what HMG is urging us all to consider). Maybe it is selfish, but understandable. How many need not to be ill for their family's sake? Would we want local shops to be closing because their owners or assistants are ill? So that nobody, and not just the uncarded, can shop in them? There are no easy answers here - just a balance of bad outcomes - which will be worse?

I posted this on Suzanne's James capitalised post on this thread, - reposting here in case you missed it Admin - as this directly supports those 'suffering' from Covid-19 issues - and this set-up will presumably have a short-ish shelf life - not 'business' we hope with any legs past July (fingers crossed symbol) I think it fits here, where people are looking for help, support advice etc. through this emergency. Clearly it is business, but not I hope as we know it, long term.

The queue management in DKH sainsbury's was poor (it was the first day doing this) - they needed to clearly separate out one queue of qualifying customers and one for non qualifiers for the 'first hour' - AND have good signage. They were good about catching 'multiple' buys and things were generally orderly - there was stock on the shelves although 'larder' items - long life - were in shorter supply than fresh - which was well stocked first thing. Of course, they didn't hold every brand and every size in particular categories, and you had to be prepared to substitute. When I drove back I saw normal specialist street shops - greengrocers etc. - with good stock levels.

As someone with weak lungs (as suggested by your asthma diagnosis) you could be more compromised if you get Covid 19 - and it moves into its second, lung impacting, stage, triggering pneumonia. Asthmatics are advised, if they have been prescribed this, to take the daily dose which is seen as prophylactic (as opposed to the medication to take when an attack occurs - which you should still take of course if an attack does occur). This suggests that you should avoid others, as catching the virus could be more dangerous for you (could be, not definitely would be). My asthma is triggered by e.g. grass pollens (linked to hayfever) - others will be linked to worse pollutants. My advice would be 'to keep your head down'. Not having to use hospital breathing apparatus (which could be necessary for you in the worst case scenario) allows someone else to use it whose needs may in fact be greater.

You're a star...

The sales activity is just mad - they are selling out of a day's supply in a couple of hours or less - but whilst mad it is not predictable, yet. I would rather they sold out than had to throw away fresh milk and eggs because they were unsold and past their date! Give them a break, what's happening is unprecedented. They will work out a system soon, you cannot expect them to magic one out of thin air.

They are stocking as they can - and things are being taken as soon as they're on the shelves. And deliveries aren't always timely. The sheer weight of panicking customers is now causing shortages - rather than simply greedy buying up of more than is needed - and 'need' takes on a different meaning when you might 'need' to buy in 14 days stores for, say, 4 people in case or if just one falls ill with Covid-19 - unless you want people from infected households then randomly going out and buying things - and it's worse for the chronically sick or over 70s who now may need to stock-up for far longer than just 14 days. Until proper supply-chains are put in for these housebound people it's not at all surprising they are trying to 'pre-solve' anticipated shortages. We are used to just-in-time buying - because of past availabilities and stores open long hours (and not being in a pandemic situation) - all this may become a thing of the past, at least for a time.

Borough Number of cases as of 9am on Monday (March 16) Kingston upon Thames 2 Redbridge 2 Richmond upon Thames 2 Newham 3 Croydon 4 Waltham Forest 4 Havering 5 Bexley 8 Enfield 8 Barking and Dagenham 10 Bromley 11 Islington 11 Sutton 11 Hounslow 12 Merton 12 Tower Hamlets 12 Hillingdon 13 Harrow 14 Haringey 16 Lewisham 17 Ealing 18 Greenwich 18 Brent 20 Hackney and the City of London 20 Wandsworth 20 Hammersmith and Fulham 21 Camden 22 Barnet 25 Lambeth 26 Southwark 33 Westminster 37 Kensington and Chelsea 43 Total 480

Although this does all seem like complete madness, HMG announcing 14 day strict quarantine for normal folk, and 84+ days for over 70s will have tended to focus minds. It's all well and good suggesting that kind folk will shop for them (well, they may, but paying for it is going to be an issue) but with delivery companies (i.e. Occado) not allowing people to change standing orders, and not taking on new customers etc. (and free order slots out over 3 weeks away) I can understand the panic setting in.

This is from https://blog.primrose.co.uk/2018/06/22/is-picking-flower-legal-in-the-uk/ According to the Wildlife and Countryside Act of 1981 it is illegal to? ?Uproot any wild plant without permission from the landowner or occupier? ? This means, literally, that it?s illegal to ?dig up? a wild plant (that doesn?t belong to you). Picking any part of the plant is legal so long as you don?t uproot the entire plant. Pick flowers from a special conservation site or reserve. This includes National Nature Reserves, Sites of Special Scientific Interest and National Trust properties. Pick any flower that is ?highly threatened?. Across the UK, there are several plants, flowers and fungi which are illegal to pick or sell due to their scarcity. The full list can be found here, and includes flowers such as wild gladiolus, some kinds of orchids, fen violets and sea knotgrass. Pick with intention to sell or advertise to sell bluebells or tree lungwort. (It is, however, legal to pick these plants if you do not intend to sell them). According to the Theft Act of 1968 it is illegal to? Pick cultivated flowers in public parks or gardens as well as plants and flowers growing on land which is maintained by the council (for example roundabouts and grass verges). In general, the picking of wildflowers is not illegal, so long as you don?t uproot the whole plant, do so with intention to sell them for profit or accidentally pick a plant found on the list of endangered species. Picking flowers that have been grown and cultivated by private bodies, local organisations or councils however is illegal, although you?re extremely unlikely to find yourself behind bars if you do. (My emphasis)

Guardian article today that may be worth reading on how ibuprofen is not wise to take for Covid-19 (which I pray your little one does not have). The Guardian article was sourced from the French Health Minister's twitter feed, which was later believed to have been hacked. So it is possible that the advice against using anti-inflammatories is wrong. Or not. It's probably safer to stick to paracetamol for now, but it may not be necessary. If you have been taking Ibuprofen maybe stop, but don't worry unnecessarily. Anyway Calpol for a child is much safer - make sure any drug you give is specified for the right age.

In general, if young children get Covid-19 then it is quite mild for them, it appears, although there are always exceptions to any rule. However there are many things out there ('normal' flu being one) which young children can also catch, and which may be far more uncomfortable for them. Follow the advice you are getting - and hydration is particularly important for children - with a temperature they will be losing moisture.

although with wild garlic I thought it was the actual digging up that was illegal. I think that's right - as long as you have a legal right to access the land, then harvesting things (cutting leaves) is OK - it's stealing or killing the plants which isn't. So you can't take bluebell plants from a wood, but you could pick bluebell flowers. Although you probably shouldn't as that spoils the (fee and beautiful) display for others.

This makes nonsense of HMG's (very sensible) handwashing mantra. Forget about issuing water, They should be issuing hand sanitisers!

The government's argument is that there are many (young, healthy) individuals for whom Covid-19 is not a threat, they will suffer only mild symptoms and recover. The more gain this immunity (what evidence there is suggests that people do not catch it twice) the greater the 'herd immunity' will be in the population. So long as they self-isolate if sick their chances of infecting the more vulnerable (elderly, with underlying health issues) is reduced -as it is when these vulnerable individuals (a group to whom I belong) take greater care with their health and exposure). The idea at least makes some sense. The alternative view is that locking everyone away for several weeks will allow the infection to burn out in isolated homes - so when we are released there won't be people around to infect us. It's a new disease so no one actually knows which view is right. And it assumes that the disease burn-out will take place everywhere, otherwise visitors coming in will re-introduce the virus, into populations not protected by any herd immunity. Difficult one to call.

Many supporters are not happy with the match being on, myself included. Surely if you are worried you can choose not to go?

-- moved topic --

Yes she is. I did the application for her & I think it was a full 3 weeks before it arrived. Ah - different process - if you haven't moved and have used your pass in the last 2 years you don't need to apply - it's meant to be automatic. Out of interest, the copy on the link I initially posted has now been changed - it now shows boroughs in just 2 groups - those who should already have got their 'automatic' renewals and those (including Southwark) who are promised them by 27th March, with a contact point if it hasn't then arrived. The original post suggested they would all arrive 'in good time' for their expiry - 31st March 2020 - I'm not sure if 2 working days is best described as 'in good time' myself.

Mum received hers last week. Is she a Southwark resident?

I am assuming you are working from home because everyone at your work is, not because you have any symptoms or have recently returned from a high incident area? Do remember you are taking up space which does need to be paid for, especially if you are using WiFi or charging your phone or laptop - 'bottomless cups of coffee' may be exploiting your host.

Well, Southwark's response to this will be clear (as it is to all traffic related issues) - we are right, you are wrong, and if you disagree with this, then move. We don't want your sort in the borough.