Frenchy

Nigello Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- nobody needs music that loud in the actual venue On this specific point, yes they do. If it's not loud enough or doesn't have the right frequencies; it doesn't do the job. That's why good nightclubs spend so much effort on their soundsystem. Sound in the open air is completely different science. On both scores though, the best systems are engineered to feel loud and enveloping and yet still enable you to carry on a person standing next to you (believe it or not!) On wider note, the majority of the people at this festival have not only had a crap year, they will now have to endure a substantially 'reduced' future because, put bluntly, (mostly) people at the start of their lives will be picking up the tab that has helped save (mostly) people at the other end of their lives - and they'll be picking it up for years, possibly decades to come. I appreciate it's not an act of selflessness (because most of them don't know it yet) - but that's how it's going to be for them. For that reason alone, I do not begrudge them a few days letting themselves go a bit (ok, 'a lot'). I have not seen anything worse than a 'oh well, c'est la vie' shrug from any neighbour, anyone out and about, anyone on our street whatsapp thread (and we live pretty close). I suspect the people who a rabidly opposed to this are actually in the minority.

Bearing in mind over 60% of the 13,000 people who attended in 2019 were 'from' our locality, the event is clearly very much 'for the enjoyment' local residents. Details are all in the post-event 2019 report, where you will also note that noise levels were strictly monitored - and not once exceeded.

Thanks, Duncan

Frenchy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > anyone who went yesterday When you get up, I mean. Unless you're still awake - which is also possible.

On a practical note: would anyone who went yesterday care to offer a ?ground report? - for those of us looking forward to attending today? Realistically, if you stopped ?everything? because of complaints from a vocal minority, we?d live in a very dull city. Trust me: whatever it is, wherever it is, whether it's big and obvious or seemingly small and innocuous: someone, somewhere, doesn?t want it. You can get lucky or unlucky with the way amplified sound circulates outside. We live literally less than 2 mins walk from the perimeter and aside from an occasional bass rumble, could barely hear it.

Went on Saturday, great event, great music (subjective I appreciate, obvs) really nice crowd, great atmosphere, well run. To go to something as good as this and walk home in a couple of minutes was a treat. If we got rid of everything that 'some' people don't like, there'd be nothing left at all. 10ish is a fair cut-off. Neighbours regularly have parties that go on longer with relatively more disturbance - not that we mind those either (especially if we're invited).

Whatever claims these companies make it's not that same process as proper vitreous enamelling - how the bath was originally coated - as this has to be done at a proper facility. The coating they apply can apply in situ can look good but won't be anything like as hardwearing as true VE (it can peel if if starts to lose its bond with the underlying surface) and doesn't quite manage the same sort of opulent look either. If I was going to do it - I'd make sure I chose a company that was prepared to stand by their work and offer a five year guarantee on their coating. But tbh if it were a freestanding bath I really wanted - and the one I had needed the whole surface redoing, I think I'd bite the bullet, get show of the old one and buy a newly restored free-standing bath which had been properly enamelled using the trad process. They're expensive - but the recoating isn't exactly cheap either - and nowhere near as good.

Football / lemon an exaggeration for effect, not a statement of fact. Apologies if it seemed glib. It's not really a case of variables, it's a case of The Whole Picture. Particulate data is not The Whole Picture. To simply cite output particulate data i.e. what comes out at the end, without any reference to what goes into it at the beginning, how it gets there, what happens in the chain along the way (from SE22 to the wider world), the alternatives and their consequences, as well as the actual real world impact (apart from on Christmas Day) - is a little un-nuanced. Of course, if your house smells of someone else's smoke of course, nuance is of no comfort - I appreciate that. I don't disagree with a lot of what you say - I don't think a lot of people will. Chimneys should not emit dark smoke, agree. Open fires are illegal in London, true. The legislation should be enforced, agree. But I don't believe the natural conclusion is 'too many people burning wood'. Totally admit that we (like everyone else) do it because 'we like it'; but if I did want to present a soap-boxy argument: why dismiss one of the few carbon-neutral, renewable fuels on the planet; one that - quite literally - grows on trees, just because current legislation is laughably unenforced and the current technology is at present, more primitive than it could be? Enforce the legislation, improve the technology. We?re an out of sight, out of mind race though. Whack the central heating on for the whole of a poorly-insulated house for a whole day (despite only sitting in one room watching the telly) and let the associated CO2, NOx, etc spill out in someone else?s backyard / country at point of production. Abe: wood fuel is taxed in the same way as every other fuel if you buy it from a reputable supplier, which of course you should.

Unfortunately when it comes to 'wanting things that they like? vs ?potential consequences to others somewhere down the line? humans have a poor track record - and one which is unlikely to change. You?re better off finding more effective ways to manage such vices than appealing to personal ethics. (How is that ?war on drugs? going these days anyway?). You?re better off looking to a future where a woodburner is capable of producing virtually no pollutants at all than hoping that one day ?Man Him No Like Fire'. Fortunately woodburning comes with its own bespoke limitation system already built-in: doing a lot of it requires a logistical exercise (acquiring it, storing it, moving it, lighting it, cleaning the appliance) which will put most people off - beyond relatively occasional use. No surprise that the worst offending day for woodburning is Christmas Day, when the most people can be arsed. It has instant appeal but statements such as ?one stove = x numbers of cars? is a facile and scientifically unsatisfactory comparison, unless of course you?ve already made your mind up. You might as well compare a football with a lemon - on account of both being capable of breaking a window.

Mick Mac Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > It takes 10 minutes on average to cut a man's hair in > a barbers. It's like most things in life, Mick: you get what you pay for.

Without going into the minutiae of the math and breakdown of an average week: for the regular stylist who works at the salon (as opposed to a senior who may also be the business owner - which of course comes with its own perks but also responsibilities) - the tips can make the difference between their day being ?worth it? or ?not?, it?s that simple. And not just because they've got tips which have made the day financially viable, but because also they've made someone happy, which is what every decent stylist wants to do more than anything, otherwise they'd do something else which would be far easier and earn more money. When it?s busy, you?re on your feet all day, often without a break, always customer-facing, sometimes without lunch, performing a personal service and genuinely wanting everyone to walk out of there feeling good - for not a lot of money. And when it's not busy.. you might not earn much anyway. PS.. you?re right about the men. Kids too. But that?s not the stylists? fault!

uncleglen Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > There used to be a massive trailer piled high with > logs for sale in the road going up to Bell Green > from Forest Hill until very recently, and someone > on this forum used to advertise logs for sale.... And the rest of the information in your link provides guidance on how this fuel should best be used.

If you use the right fuel, and light them properly (you don?t even need paper) you can have a clean burn going in a couple of minutes without any smouldering. Hopeless fuel is the main problem at the moment, too many people willing to sell it - and buy it. And a lot of people don?t know how to use them properly.. like BBQ?s. We do have central heating of course - but centrally heating a 3-floor house to sit in one room for five hours a night is hardly an environmental (or even financial after a decade or so in our case) win either. That said, there?s no point in pretending: the main ?win? is that they?re just plain nice to sit in front of. The only other comparably pleasant (albeit in a different way) form of heating is underfloor. The regulations on their permissible emissions will surely tighten and improve as the tech improves and if they continue to prove popular as time goes on - like cars did. If the authorities aren't even bothered about enforcing regulations re open fires (as they don't seem to be at present) then I'm afraid 'approved appliances' which can burn solid fuel legally won't even be on the radar.