Jonboy

JB wanders back in - says to MM "have you considered trying the Third Way - sitting in the middle of the bar and arguing with both ends?"

CWALD - Theres really no need to punch yourself. Millions of people every day find themselves agreeing with me! You should embrace it, not fight it. Hehe. As to joining the political process - i would be able to only for a short while until the media dug into my less than squeaky history. I didn't spend my formative years planning to be a politician so now have "history". Oh well.

Indeed there is room. Plenty of room actually - seems my idea (Seans idea?) of a right wing bar isn't as popular as it could be. We'll have to hope Marmora Man pops in on his way home.

Cheers :)

You pass Sean, but only for a temporary membership I'm afraid. Still, enough time for you to have a beer...

First 10 in today get free membership. Can't beat that can you.

Also, at nearly 900 pages its a good one for the beach. Or picket line, or DSS office. Wherever you spend your holidays really.

I'm going to offer a very lowbrow book as an example of things working! Tom Clancy's Executive Orders of all things. Jack Ryan (who else) is now President after a plane crash kills all the Executive. He knows nothing about politics per se and has no interest in its machinations. He does however believe in things that work. DOesn't matter who works them, as long as they work, because the country needs things that work. ( I can practically feel the forum losing the will to live by thsi point) He appoints a cabinet of staff who have no political experience at all but are experts in their field. ie as Treasure Sec he appoints a famous trader - not the alternative guy who has all the political experience yet has no experience of making things work in the real world. I guess thats MMs point (although he makes it better then me). Politicians and goverments have no experience in building things, managing things or running things. They're straight out of uni to be someones PS, then up the ranks to Under Sec etc etc. Never built or managed a thing. Never should either. Hope you enjoyed the plug for the book - actually one of his better ones.

Take your point on banking Sean, but I am a shareholder in the NHS. The entire country is. We can't not be!

Yes please MM, bring them along. You can do the first reading next week.

Sean, I am actually in favour of the NHS. I think the rich have a moral (and practical) duty to subsidise the care of those less well off. No argument there. The point I'm making is that the State also has a moral duty. That duty is to spend my money wisely, and to ensure that the system works. Bear in mind that I have no choice here. I can't choose whether or not to pay for the NHS, so in return I do expect a working system that will fix me.

This sounds suspiciously like someone who was never on the receiving end of the care in question. To reverse it - would I rather be a poor person needing medical care in the US or in the UK? Ok if you have money and are used to certain levels of comfort then the rough and tumble of the NHS might be an affront to your senses - but considering what it is providing to everyone it's a small price to pay IMO ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Sean, I would far rather be in the UK on the grounds that someone like me will pay for my care. The NHS this financial year has a budget of ?104 billion. That works out to be around a ?1700 contribution for every man, woman and child in the UK. ON the grounds that they dont all pay tax and that i pay quite a bit, my share is probably closer to twice that sum. The US have no free at point of entry care, but once you're in, the system is superb. My argument with the NHS has always been that for ?3400 I could buy an absolutely bloody brilliant private health policy - and whilst I'm not expecting quite the same level of treatment I do expect a system that works. The NHS is far from free for many of us and quite simply doesn't work terribly well.

MM, I am fearful for your long term safety, both in this virtual world and also in the real ED world. The expression of interest in such loony-right ideals as smaller government, a privately managed NHS and a market ecomomy will upset many of the militant Trots who hang out in here. Try to bear in mind always when in this forum that market forces are evil. They allow people to freely choose what to buy, and where to buy it from. As an example, the evil emporium White Stuff will offer a range of clothes. If they are not what people want to buy, the shop will close. This is morally wrong. The shop should be prevented from opening in the first place, to protect us all from the evil intentions of its owners, viz, an interest in offering us a place to buy clothes. Your crazy high-Tory spoutings will endanger all of us who have so far managed to be more discreet. Please, stop now as you put all of us in danger. For the love of God MM, go back to Fulham. If you must stay here, then contact me. A bunch of us crazy neo-cons meet in secret at the top of One Tree Hill each week to read the Spectator - you're more than welcome to join us if you can be trusted.

I think you've pulled. Best of Luck.

Can't say i agree. The chemists I've been into on LL could do with a thorough tidying up and a re-vitalised range of products to reflect the fact that outside the shop its 2007. IMO.