Schonrock kids and unchaperoned "school run"

[pk]

BB100 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> uppereastsider Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > The state SHOULD NOT be able to define what a

> > parent's role is?

>

> I agree but it already has. Parental capacity is

> laid out in the Framework for Assessment of

> children in need and their families (2000)

>

> Parents often know what's best

> > for their children - the government of the day

> > shouldn't have a say in this (unless a child is

> > abused)... But at this rate there'll be a cap

> on

> > when men/women can be parents. Ridiculous - I

> say!

>

> As Keef has explained, the state needs to define

> it's role and responsibilities more clearly so

> parents are not left with threats of intervention

> (and social finger wagging) when they make, often

> subjective but with good intention, decisions

> about their children's welfare.

isn't the state's role: "Securing the wellbeing of children by protecting them from all forms of harm and ensuring their development needs are responded to appropriately"?

and towards that: "A framework [the Framework for Assessment of children in need and their families (2000) no less] has been developed which provides a systematic way of analysing, understanding and recording what is happening to children and young people within their families and the wider context of the community in which they live."

(source: the Framework for Assessment of children in need and their families (2000))

'subjective but with good intention' can equal wrong and the focus here should surely be more on ensuring the safety of children rather than not upsetting parents?

[DaveR]

"Framework for Assessment of children in need and their families"

This doc is not aimed at all children or all families, but specifically at those where there is a need for external intervention (estimated at 3-400,000 out of 11 million children in the UK). This reflects the statutory limitation of the responsiblities of local authorities under the Children Act 1989.

'subjective but with good intention' can equal wrong and the focus here should surely be more on ensuring the safety of children rather than not upsetting parents?

This is a very dangerous road to go down without a well founded finding that there is a need for intervention in the first place. Is it 'wrong' to bring up kids in a house where one or both parents smoke? Or where kids are not fed an optimal diet?

It is rightly recognised as a matter of principle that the State generally has no role in individual parents' decisions about how to raise their kids, and it is also right that actions that appear to offend against this principle are scrutinised to ensure that they are necessary and proportionate.

[uppereastsider]

DaveR Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "Framework for Assessment of children in need and

> their families"

>

> This doc is not aimed at all children or all

> families, but specifically at those where there is

> a need for external intervention (estimated at

> 3-400,000 out of 11 million children in the UK).

> This reflects the statutory limitation of the

> responsiblities of local authorities under the

> Children Act 1989.

>

> 'subjective but with good intention' can equal

> wrong and the focus here should surely be more on

> ensuring the safety of children rather than not

> upsetting parents?

>

> This is a very dangerous road to go down without a

> well founded finding that there is a need for

> intervention in the first place. Is it 'wrong' to

> bring up kids in a house where one or both parents

> smoke? Or where kids are not fed an optimal

> diet?

>

> It is rightly recognised as a matter of principle

> that the State generally has no role in individual

> parents' decisions about how to raise their kids,

> and it is also right that actions that appear to

> offend against this principle are scrutinised to

> ensure that they are necessary and proportionate.

Good example of how data/ statistics get misconstrued.

Well said DaveR - Agreed.

[BB100]

DaveR Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This doc is not aimed at all children or all

> families,

No the document isn't so shouldn't be analysed for this discussion, however it is a useful reference by default as it does define the parental role, which was the objection, although not what was in dispute. However saying that it is Cameron's personal belief that gov. should intervene in parenting more:

http://www.conservatives.com/News/Speeches/2010/01/David_Cameron_Supporting_parents.aspx

DaveR rightly suggests a balance but what the state will and will not interfere in with parental responsibility is ill-defined and regularly inconsistent.

[BB100]

......and I should add....what people think gov. will or won't do is used as a threat to control other parents behaviour.

[citizenED]

Surely the state intervenes in the lives of all families in a variety of ways. Seat belt laws, film certification, the duty to take your kids to school etc. Should this all be left up to parents?

[BB100]

Those restrictions are very clearly defined (and the seat belt law is universal). The issue here is parental rights to make decisions about their child's wellbeing, without fear of state intervention. It is central to the reasons why parents are cotton wooling their kids for fear of getting it wrong and social services on the doorstep.

[Loz]

Interestingly, an article in the British Medical Journal has recommended social services get involved with chronically obese children, with the possibility that the parents be charged with neglect.

Parents of obese children may be guilty of neglect

[citizenED]

unchaperoned kid journey New York style

Mothering and Smothering

[Zebedee Tring]

At the age of 10, in the late 50s, I was allowed to travel round the Underground and London Bus network all on my own. I was a shy, unworldly child but as a result of travels in London I became much more self-reliant and able to work out how to get to just about anywhere.