Property Management Company - also Freehold Company Secretary

[Jules-and-Boo]

Hi - need some advice please.

I'm having problems with the work the Property Management company have done on my flat (I own a share of the freehold).

I've asked them for the specifics of the contract they have with the company that is formed by the Freeholders (Ltd Co) which they refuse to give me.

I've just looked on Co House so I can contact teh directors and have seen that the Property Managemet Company is also the Company Secretary.

I'm sure this is giving them ample scope to overcharge and do no work - or leave work in a state that requires re-work.

I'm looking to complain to the ombudsmen but need some advice on how to untangle this....

[red devil]

How many fellow 'share of freeholders' are there?...

[Jules-and-Boo]

eight others. I own the freehold of two of the flats.

I want to complain but feel that the complaint I make against the Property Management compamy and their work will be reviewed by the Co Secretary - who happens to be the same that I am making the complaint about.

I have spoken to one of the directors and he is very unhappy with them as well, but is not a very savvy person and probably feels held to ransom, as I do.

the general understanding I get is taht the other freeholders are also unhappy. the Co secretary refuses to give me their details so Ic an contact them (flats are rented out, largely)

[KidKruger]

Perhaps you can give a letter to each tenant saying there is a potential issue with the mean tenancy of the overall property (which ultimately is going to affect them ), asking them to pass it to their landlord because the management co are not willing to help.

This may identify a few of the landlords.

[nxjen]

You could do a Land Registry search, which will cost you a few quid each, to find out the head leaseholders, that is your fellow joint freeholders if I'm following this correctly, of each of the flats.

[red devil]

Rather than going down the ombudsman route, I would put your efforts in to finding out the names of the other freeholders either via the Land Registry or asking the tenants who their agent/landlord is. See how how many of them are actually unhappy, and if you have a majority i.e 6 or more, then you can start the process of getting a new management company involved, or as there are only 10 flats, you could do this amongst yourselves (I have personally and it's fairly easy). Do you know when the next AGM is?...

[Siduhe]

The role of a company secretary is normally administrative - making sure all company filings are made, directors properly appointed, meetings held etc. So it's not that surprising to me that the company who is managing the property day to day is also the secretary. I can understand your concern that they may not pass your complaint on to the directors of the company though.

It's the directors of the company you need to engage with - which it sounds like you are doing - if one of the directors is unhappy, presumably he can contact his fellow directors to discuss and deal with your complaint as well as get you a copy of the contract between the Ltd Co and the Management Company? It's the directors that hold the power in the company and have duties to the shareholders (i.e. you as a freeholder) so I would be pushing them for action.

[ianr]

>> How many fellow 'share of freeholders' are there?...>

> eight others. I own the freehold of two of the flats.

I'm not sure I understand the situation from your description. I think clarifying that is a necessary first step. Does the following possibly get it right?

I think it's more likely that you own the leaseholds of two flats, and a corresponding share of the company (call it FC) which owns the freehold. I'd expect the directors and shareholders of that company to be the owners of the leases of all the flats (how many?) in the building, including yourself. It's that company that's ultimately in charge of the building maintenance and the engagement of any others to do it, and it's the directors that are in charge of the company (with maybe some role stipulated for shareholders). So you have a role to play, and rights and responsibilities, as ?director/shareholder. Are you named at CH as both a director and shareholder?

You also have rights and responsibilities as a leaseholder. Some of those rights are assertable against the owner of the freehold, which is presumably the company of which you are ?one of the several directors. This is a good place to start for getting an idea of those, and of types of arrangement generally: http://www.lease-advice.org/advice-guides/.

And then there's the property management company (call it PM) you mention. Is this company nothing to do with the owners of the flats? Given that it's ?named as company secretary of FC, does that mean that it's a third party company to which FC has perhaps contractually assigned general responsibility for running everything? Who got PM to do the work? Did it qualify for Section 20 consultation (as in the lease-advice guides)?

[Angelina]

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[Jules-and-Boo]

Ianr - I don't know the answers to all of your questions.

I'll need to check other shareholders.

I am definately owner of the freehold (share of) for two of the flats and leaseholder for one.

I don't know for certain that the PM is not also a shareholder.

I'm not a director. I have asked the secreatry for the copy of the lease for my flat and they refuse to give me a copy (Co House sent me the lease for the whole house, which I think is differet).

The PM also refuse to send me the copy of their contract with the freehold Ltd co.

I need to check the Section 20 as I don't know - but thanks for letting me know I need to find out.

It's a bit confusing and I feel like I'm being led in circles by the PM/ Secreatry and really need to know how to get out of this loop....

[ianr]

It's beyond my understanding then. I'm not now sure how much of what I said is even relevant, and will bow out. Apologies for any presumption, and good luck.

[Carrie]

You can get a copy of the lease for your flat directly from the Land Registry - you don't need the Property Management Company to provide this to you.

You can get a copy of the company return which will list both shareholders and directors of the company from Companies House.

[red devil]

J&B, you need to go back to basics, find out who the other flat owners/shareholders are, and which ones are directors. And you also need to clarify if the management company/secretary is an owner or not. When the freehold company was set up it would've been set out how the company was to be run and what rights the shareholders would have, e.g. voting rights.

This is why I asked before if you knew when the next AGM was. Do you know, have you ever been to one? If not, have you ever been given minutes of previous meetings?

As for your lease, you should've been given a copy by your solicitor when you purchased the flat, and probably all the bumph about how the freehold company and how it's run. Maybe you've filed it all away somewhere?

Do you receive a set of the FC's yearly accounts they submit to Companies House? You should as a shareholder, and they should say who the shareholders and directors are.

The PM may be within their right not to send you a copy of their agreement, especially if they were directly employed by the directors. The directors should have a copy as they would've instructed the appointment of the PM in the first place, so ask the director you're friendly with...

[Jules-and-Boo]

Thanks all, for the tips. I'm meeting one of the directors tomorrow - which will be interesting - he's not been particularly proactive before.

And now I know what info I need, it will make more sense to me.

There are definately some very odd characters, which I will have to address.....

Many thanks

J