Southwark council wants our NI number!

[buddug]

I've just had a very polite young man at my door (5pm) dressed in a hi-vis Southwark Council jacket and carrying a Southwark Council bag. He said I was not on the electoral register - which I am and have been for 20 years - and that I must now give him my National Insurance number if I want to vote! I refused, saying I had never been asked for this before and that it was none of Southwark Council's business what my NI number was. Is this a scam, or is the council so desperate for money now that it needs to glean our numbers in order to sell them on to multinational companies? My feeling is, if this is bona fide, we should all refuse to give our NI numbers to the council. What do others think?

[Sally Eva]

http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/faq/voting-and-registration/what-is-individual-electoral-registration

seems consistent with this (above) -- caused by a change in the electoral registration rules. Perhaps he didn't explain himself very clearly

[buddug]

But are you all happy with this? I'm not. It seems undemocratic.

[Sally Eva]

I was a bit surprised to read this on the government website:

You must register to vote if you?re asked to do so and you meet the conditions for registering, eg you?re 16 or over and you?re British or a national of an EU or Commonwealth country.

If you?re asked to register and don?t do so, your local Electoral Registration Office could fine you ?80.

so you don't have to vote but you do have to go on the electoral register if asked.

It will have been agreed by Parliament so I don't think it could be called undemocratic

[Bic Basher]

Fortunately the council sent me a form in the post to re-register which I did online.

[Siduhe]

According to this, there are other forms of verification that you can supply if you don't want to give your NI number:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/16/do-i-need-my-national-insurance-number-to-register-to-vote

[Blah Blah]

Electoral registration is important for councils because it determines the level of funding they get. So I can absolutely understand why the council would door knock at unregistered addresses (and they have done this in the past anyway). Sp I would say that if you want the council to provide services, help them to get the maximum central funding they can by registering to vote.

[buddug]

But Siduhe, he specifically wanted my NI Number, nothing else.

[a_m]

I understand the need for registering with the Council, but i object to the Council trying to gather personal information by someone turning up at your front door. It can't be good practice to arrive unannounced at someone's home (even with Southwark Council branded items) and request personal information from them like their NI number. It goes against all the advice on avoiding fraudsters.

[uncleglen]

you are joking!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1550036/Fraud-fear-as-millions-of-NI-numbers-are-lost.html

[ianr]

The Electoral Registration Officer has a duty to get information, and to make visits, in some circumstances. Have a look at section 4 of the Part 3 - Canvass guidance document at http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/i-am-a/electoral-administrator/running-electoral-registration on how they deal with responses to the Household Enquiry Form that they send out. Just one example:

"4.53 If you have given a third HEF and had no response, you are required by law to make at least one visit to the address for the purpose of obtaining the required information if you have not already done so."

There's also a summary of the Canvass procedural timetable http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/__data/assets/word_doc/0018/170433/Summary-sheet-sending-HEFs.doc.

I haven't checked the getting of NI numbers. The last time I looked it up, I think it may have been that they were used for initial validation of new entries, and were not retained after six months. Fwiw, I've been resident at the same address for some years and continuously on the register, and my HEF showed me as currently listed. As there was no change in household details all I had to do was to confirm that fact, without providing any additional information. The NI number question didn't arise, and hasn't, at least for ER purposes.

[civilservant]

i think you were right not to hand out an NI number to an unknown person on your doorstep

howver, if you've been registered to vote at the same address for years, you should have received (and responded to) at least one of the frequent Council missives asking you to confirm the number and names of people registered to vote at your address. we seem to get one of these every coupld of months. if you haven't, i suggest you get in touch with Southwark to find out what's going on

EDA hmmm just spotted this - http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,1568622,page=2 - and suspect that my help/wisdom superfluous here

[????]

It's the price we pay to try and tackle enedemic corruption/voting fraud in 'certain' places like - Oldham, Tower Hamlets, Bradford......

[James Barber]

The latest electoral registration system needs your National Insurance reference to check that who you say you are matches the Department for Works and Pensions and Inland Revenue systems. As each person has one unique NI reference the hope is that by using the unique NI reference it will avoid people being register in more than one place. And everyone in receipt of benefits will have given an NI reference and home address, or paying Income Tax will have given an NI reference.

Canvassing I've often found landlords registered at an address where they don't live for example. Or confusion over Flat A and B with both addresses having the same person registered. So the NI ref. is a useful way of avoiding duplicates or worse and an attempt to reduce electoral fraud.

BUT I would never give my NI reference to someone at the doorstep. I'd ask for a free post form addressed to Southwark Council to return such information via.

[nununoolio]

I think you will find this canvass is as paper free as possible James, so no freepost envelopes this time around.

For those of you not happy to give details on the doorstep, you were sent a letter in July asking you to register/respond online (It took me less than a minute). You will have received subsequent reminders too, all with instructions showing how to submit your details online. All the canvassers are trying to do is to register you online by typing out for you the few letters and numbers you haven't quite got round to typing yourself in over two months. They are out in all sorts of weather. It is often a thankless task that isn't particularly well paid. For most it a extra job that helps pay the bills. What they are doing is legal and required by law. They would much rather be at home, watching TV, putting the kids to bed, out with friends, typing nonsense on forum threads etc........ I should know, I'm one of them! You could, and should, have registered/confirmed your details in the time it has taken to read this thread. Go on, dig out your letter or one of your reminders and get on with it please!

[Blah Blah]

Seconded nunun. No reason for not registering for the electoral register, and the council give plenty of oppurtunity to do so before they send someone out to your door.

[buddug]

I've lived at this property for 19 years and have voted in numerous elections...

[nxjen]

You are still required to confirm your occupation at the address by completing the form, either a hard copy or online, which is sent out at least once a year.

[James Barber]

Hi nununoolio,

I'd still recommend not handing over useful personal information to anyone on the doorstep. Obtaining a hi vis jacket with Southwark on it isn't that hard and doesn't prove anything.

And the genuine canvassers are doing a difficult job as it's hard to find people in.

Hi buggug,

Go online and register. Doesn't take long.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Does seem a bit off sending someone door to door asking for personal information.

[James Barber]

rahrahrah, we do need people canvassing about the electoral roll to ensure as many people as possible are on it. But the idea personal information would or should handed over is na?ve at best.

[DulwichFox]

We should all of had a letter through our doors.. I did.. fom Southwork Council to confirming residents at that address.

Usually there is nothing to do if the information is correct. People are requested to go on line entering

the 2 part security numbers provided in the letter and completing the on line form to confirm those names residing

at the address.

It does not (from memory)request N.I. numbers.

DulwichFox

[Blah Blah]

I think the last round of letters was sent two or three weeks ago? We had ours anyway.

[Sue]

DulwichFox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> We should all of had a letter through our doors..

> I did.. fom Southwork Council to confirming

> residents at that address.

>

> Usually there is nothing to do if the information

> is correct. People are requested to go on line

> entering

> the 2 part security numbers provided in the

> letter and completing the on line form to confirm

> those names residing

> at the address.

>

> It does not (from memory)request N.I. numbers.

>

Presumably it doesn't need to because the security numbers you enter online are considered sufficient?

[ianr]

As part of the transition to Individual Electoral Registration, registered voters' details have already been automatically verified against the DWP CIS database, so there's normally no need to ask them for their NINo. A NINo _is_ asked for to help verify the identity of potential new registrants. More details are available in the guidance at http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/i-am-a/electoral-administrator/running-electoral-registration I referred to above, particularly in Part 4.