Jump to content

Recommended Posts

P.O.U.S.theWonderCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

I do find it interesting that no-one

> was up in arms when the requirement was imposed on

> the 3CNs.

>

>

> I have 3CN friends who have been treated like

> second-class members of society for some time.


what is a 3CN? (if you will excuse my lack of u.t.d knowledge of a.a.f.t's.)

Sorry - should have made that clearer. 3CN is short-hand for third-country national (i.e. citizen of a country outside the EU). There are a number of restrictions already in place for them, including:


- firms need to maintain records of how many 3CNs, including regularly checking the visa status of those staff.

- having an ID card (separate to their passport) which includes stuff like their fingerprints.

- not being able to get a job unless they are more qualified than the EU candidates applying. In practice, I've got several 3CN friends who have had companies refuse to even look at their job applications because they were 3CN.

- depending on the visa, not being entitled to benefits even if they have been working here for years.


I believe that these requirements don't apply when they get indefinite leave to remain (step before becoming a British citizen).


All of these requirements were introduced a while back, mostly under Labour governments. I don't mention that to defend the Tories, just to point out that this kind of policy is bi-partisan. We've had a two tier society with regards to certain foreigners for a long time.



*Edited to correct typos

Er, i'm scratching my head here but isn't all that fairly standard in most countries of the world - I think most existing EU countries have something similar; I think a US Green Card is similar - unless you have completely free borders and free movement that sounds pretty reasonable?

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Er, i'm scratching my head here but isn't all that

> fairly standard in most countries of the world - I

> think most existing EU countries have something

> similar; I think a US Green Card is similar -

> unless you have completely free borders and free

> movement that sounds pretty reasonable?


I very much think that is what Amber Rudd thought before putting it in her briefing notes. Where's the harm in that? After all, we are leaving the EU and without compromise, so EU workers are now just 'alien' (despite them being here under Treaty).


Then her brother - who objected strongly and in my view courageously to her language - had her 'scratching her head', and the Financial Times (oh those supporters of stupid cosmopolitan liberalism) published one of the most scathing leading articles today on her and May that I have ever read (where indeed is wealth created in the UK?) but she really thinks it is 'fairly standard', and (again, very perplexingly and they must just be stupid) foreign countries are widely reported (although not in the Daily Mail) as worrying what the f... is going on in the UK at the moment.


And later today (oh, how I love politics) a government spokesperson (having presumably scratched their head) announces they have 'no intention' of doing anything at all that sounds so 'pretty reasonable'.

Calm down, take a deep breathe and stop getting into a 'Daily Mail' type frenzy of Rightousness. My post was about this - P.O.U.S twc"s post. It was pointing out that these arrangements for 3CNs are pretty commonplace in most countries and that was all - I wasn't saying this was fine for EU citizens or Amber Rudd was being reasonable. You seriously need to read what people are saying before you jump to conclusions.


P.O.U.S.theWonderCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sorry - should have made that clearer. 3CN is

> short-hand for third-country national (i.e.

> citizen of a country outside the EU). There are a

> number of restrictions already in place for them,

> including:

>

> - firms need to maintain records of how many 3CNs,

> including regularly checking the visa status of

> those staff.

> - having an ID card (separate to their passport)

> which includes stuff like their fingerprints.

> - not being able to get a job unless they are more

> qualified than the EU candidates applying. In

> practice, I've got several 3CN friends who have

> had companies refuse to even look at their job

> applications because they were 3CN.

> - depending on the visa, not being entitled to

> benefits even if they have been working here for

> years.

>

> I believe that these requirements don't apply when

> they get indefinite leave to remain (step before

> becoming a British citizen).

>

> All of these requirements were introduced a while

> back, mostly under Labour governments. I don't

> mention that to defend the Tories, just to point

> out that this kind of policy is bi-partisan. We've

> had a two tier society with regards to certain

> foreigners for a long time.

>

>

> *Edited to correct typos


In fact, I'll remind you what I said earlier in this thread and has now come to pass:


Except there won't be a policy and it never was put forward as a policy -it was just a stupid idea by Amber Rudd that has been buried. People are just misinformed and hysterical - and the internet just spreads this kind of crap like wildfire.


so you can withdraw your 'pretty reasonable' dig for starters. - when in fact I called it a 'stupid idea'.

I was just saying that these:


- firms need to maintain records of how many 3CNs, including regularly checking the visa status of those staff.

- having an ID card (separate to their passport) which includes stuff like their fingerprints.

- not being able to get a job unless they are more qualified than the EU candidates applying. In practice, I've got several 3CN friends who have had companies refuse to even look at their job applications because they were 3CN.

- depending on the visa, not being entitled to benefits even if they have been working here for years.


Were relatively standard (with slight differences) for most countries' 3CNs - I think a US Greencard is very similar for eg?

Yes I agree (although many of these requirements are more strict than other English-speaking counties), but wasn't sure what that had to do with my point - I was saying that what people are saying is awful for EU nationals already happens to 3CNs, and was imposed with little outcry at the time.

Said in todays PMQs


"Angus Robertson notes that May put advertising vans on the streets "telling foreigners to go home".


Will she confirm that the intention of her government is still to go ahead with the registration of foreign workers but we shouldn't worry because it'll be kept secret?

May responds that Mr Robertson "should have listened" to previous answers and point-blank refuses to answer the question."

There seems to be this weird anti-business, anti-trade streak in the Conservatives. Can keen students of British history tell me where that comes from? On the face of it it appears to be paradoxical. But there's no denying it. Are we re-playing some long forgotten eighteenth century conflict? None of this belongs to the twenty first century, that's for sure.

Jenny1 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> There seems to be this weird anti-business,

> anti-trade streak in the Conservatives. Can keen

> students of British history tell me where that

> comes from? On the face of it it appears to be

> paradoxical. But there's no denying it. Are we

> re-playing some long forgotten eighteenth century

> conflict? None of this belongs to the twenty first

> century, that's for sure.


This is happening globally - people buying into the rubbish that 'neo-liberalism' and Global Free trade are Free Markets are impoverishing us all. I despair when I look at what our two major parties offer on the economy, infact on anything.

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It's pretty obvious to me that the rules on Brexit

> are

>

> 1.Priority is controlling borders/movement of

> people.

> 2.Economy/free market/trade is best effort when

> the above rule is not broken.

>

> I may be wrong :)


I hope that this is just chatter to win votes, but they understand the real effect of going through with the tough talk.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Latest Discussions

    • “There was an excellent discussion on Newscast last night between the BBC Political Editor, the director of the IFS and the director of More In Common - all highly intelligent people with no party political agenda ” I would call this “generous”   Labour should never have made that tax promise because, as with - duh - Brexit, it’s pretending the real world doesn’t exist now. I blame Labour in no small part for this delusion. But the electorate need to cop on as well.  They think they can have everything they want without responsibilities, costs or attachments. The media encourage this  Labour do need to raise taxes. The country needs it.  Now, exactly how it’s done remains to be seen. But if people are just going to go around going “la la laffer curve. Liars! String em up! Vote someone else” then they just aren’t serious people reckoning with the problem yes Labour are more than a year into their term, but after 14 years of what the Tories  did? Whoever takes over, has a major problem 
    • Messaging, messaging, messaging. That's all it boils down to. There are only so many fiscal policies out there, and they're there for the taking, no matter which party you're in. I hate to say it, but Farage gets it right every time. Even when Reform reneges on fiscal policy, it does it with enough confidence and candidness that no one is wringing their hands. Instead, they're quietly admired for their pragmatism. Strangely, it's exactly the same as Labour has done, with its manifesto reverse on income tax, but it's going to bomb.  Blaming the Tories / Brexit / Covid / Putin ... none of it washes with the public anymore  - it wants to be sold a vision of the future, not reminded of the disasters of the past. Labour put itself on the back foot with its 'the tories fucked it all up' stance right at the beginning of its tenure.  All Lammy had to do (as with Reeves and Raynor etc) was say 'mea culpa. We've made a mistake, we'll fix it. Sorry guys, we're on it'. But instead it's 'nothing to see here / it's someone else's fault / I was buying a suit / hadn't been briefed yet'.  And, of course, the press smells blood, which never helps.  Oh! And Reeve's speech on Wednesday was so drab and predictable that even the journalists at the press conference couldn't really be arsed to come up with any challenging questions. 
    • Niko 07818 607 583 has been doing jobs for us for several years, he is reliable, always there for us, highly recommended! 
    • I am keeping my fingers crossed the next few days are not so loud. I honestly think it is the private, back garden displays that are most problematic as, in general, there is no way of knowing when and where they might happen. For those letting off a few bangers in the garden I get it is tempting to think what's the harm in a few minutes of 'fun', but it is the absolute randomness of sudden bangs that can do irreparable damage to people and animals. With organised events that are well advertised there is some forewarning at least, and the hope is that organisers of such events can be persuaded to adopt and make a virtue of using only low noise displays in future.
Home
Events
Sign In

Sign In



Or sign in with one of these services

Search
×
    Search In
×
×
  • Create New...