make doherty history

[Brendan]

Jeremy Wrote:

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>

> I do love The Ramones, but their records were

> essentially stripped down 50s rock n roll played

> badly.

'S'punk rock innit?

[Jah Lush]

As someone who actually saw the Clash first time round you could say that they certainly progressed musically but they borrowed from everywhere, like all good bands do, but I'd hardly say they were shape-shifters. Sure they influenced a lot of people, but it's unfortunate they are directly responsible for The Alarm (cringes) and all those shitty American bands like Green Day and Blink 182 who think they're a bit punky but only seemed to have listened to the first album. Also, if you think the Libertines albums sound a bit like the early Clash it's because they're produced by Mick Jones.

[Jeremy]

I doubt that The Clash really influenced the Californian punk-pop stuff much. More like Ramones, Replacements, Husker Du, Screeching Weasel, etc. But of course it's wide open to debate, it's hard (or impossible) to say for sure who influenced who!

[Brendan]

Now bands like Green Day and Blink 182 were not really trying to copy early punk rock like the Clash. They were just the poppy, radio friendly tip of the iceberg that was the undergound punk scene in the 90s (made up mostly of West Coast, American bands).

This music was sort of one level under the mid 90s ?Alternative? or ?Grunge? scene that was considered to be the undergound in America by some.

The way punk evolved in America during the 80s was quite different to this side of the Atlantic which is why when most people in Britain first heard Green Day or Blink 182 they thought, ?What the fcuk is this? These guys sound like they are trying to play punk rock. Punk was 20 years ago wasn?t it??

Which it was in Britain.

What had happened across the pond though was bands like the Descendants (formed 1978) and Black Flag (formed 1976) started a music scene that spawned the likes of Bad Religion (formed 1980) and NOFX (formed 1983) and was adopted by the skateboard/surfing culture in California at the time.

By the 90s this music had evolved into something that sounded a bit different to what punk was in the 70s but was still called punk and recognisable as such. Notable bands being Lagwagon, Pennywise, Rancid and Face to Face. With the likes of Green Day being the more commercial radio friendly side.

The fans had changed too. Your general teenage punk rocker now probably had a skateboard, wore baggy jeans and spent his time smoking weed or going to the mall somewhere in suburban America/Canada/Australia.

This scene is still very much alive and evolving with each new generation and has also produced 3 quite large but fiercely independent record labels, Epitaph, FATwrechords and Hellcat.

Right! Consider yourself educated.

Next on subjective, opinionated rock ?n roll history with Brendan:

Why Nirvana Really Were Better Than The Pixies Regardless Of What Everyone Else Says.

[Jah Lush]

Brendan Wrote:

Punk was 20 years ago

> wasn?t it??

>

> Which is was in Britain.

Excellent post Brendan, very informative and researched but with one small error, 30 years ago or 31 if you like, maybe 32 years ago but let's not split hairs. So are you a music journalist or just a rabid music fan like me.

[Jeremy]

Some local info relating to Brendan's potted history of US punk:

-local (well, Norwood) band Mouthwash released an album on Hellcat records, after supporting Rancid in London. Not that I particularly approve of either band.

-Guns n' Wankers material was originally relased on Crystal Palace based Rugger Bugger records, before later being re-issued on Fat Wreck. I certainly approve of this band.

[Brendan]

Yeah I like Guns and Wankers. I know the guy who used to drum for them.

[Brendan]

Jah Lush Wrote:

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> Excellent post Brendan, very informative and

> researched but with one small error, 30 years ago

> or 31 if you like, maybe 32 years ago but let's

> not split hairs. So are you a music journalist or

> just a rabid music fan like me.

What I meant was about 20 years before the release of Green Day - Dookie (1994) which was probably the first album of the genre to get any real radio play in the UK.

I?m just a rabid music fan Jah. Although I would like to be a music journalist. At the moment I am writing an article on the merging of the Health and Safety Executive with the Commission. It is about as interesting as watching paint dry and less significant.