Over population - should births be taxed?

[????]

What part of the message in posting "Race is irrelevant here IMO" can't you understand Sean?

or. To bat it back back to you in a near word for word response

of all the posts in the last couple of pages, THAT'S the one you pounce on?

[????]

Slightly ironic and certainly a tad hypocritical

[SeanMacGabhann]

I'll admit to possibly missing something here, but I'm not getting this. I thought that you posted that and I agreed with you? I wasn't being ironic at all. I agreed with your post. I just didn't get why ONLY DJKQ's ridiculous statement got picked up whilst tarot's

"What about the immigrants ,who have more than one wife, kids galore and claim benifits for all of them. Abu Hamsa was one, he done well. a lot better than most deserving folk. I.ll have the P. C brigade squealing now. Face facts this country is a soft touch for all and sundry."

Was let slide by everyone. I knew when I posted that I hadn't really contributed to the debate but I figured it was what it was and I wasn't going to add much - I was just surprised that you picked on just that comment and not others. But I didn't really intend to have a pop in any way

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

It was let slide because we don't want to encourage the tripetty trapetty folk.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I like this phrase

Plus, if we are over-populated (which I don't think we are) then we could focus on getting rid of TTTF - one stone. Two birds

[Tarot]

Most muslims do have more than one wife, Fact. What colour or race they are is imaterial Abu hamsa was just an example of how the benifit system. is draining the overall economy. If things dont change, there will be no funds for anything. Maybe that would be a good thing ,maybe then the oppotunist will leave , to live elsewhere(not France). To have loads of babies willy nilly, pick up all the benifits, and sit at home doing nothing. is the reason why we will be over populated. And P'G C. Grow up:

[Chick]

Tarot why don?t you move abroad? You might be happier and broaden your mind. I personally would welcome every immigrant and be glad to be shot of people with views like yours.

Immigrants with or without children start work and paying direct and indirect taxes without having had the benefit of education and health care and therefore over their life time make a larger contribution to our society than you.

Do you know most Muslims?

[Tarot]

You have no idea what contribution I make. Everyone knows muslims.I.d rather be shot of people with your views. There are childless couples ,gays and career orientatedwho work all their life to pay taxes for these LAZY, people to sit around breeding.

[Chick]

What lazy people are you referring to?

[SeanMacGabhann]

I'm pretty sure tarot is waaaay beyond any discussion or argument

[????]

"Most muslims do have more than one wife, Fact"...what even the women ones?

[Tarot]

Its not an arguement Sean. why do you have to be so confrontational,

[????]

I don't always agree with Sean but standing up against stupid bigotry is a confrontation i'm happy to be with him on

[Moos]

Let's not feed the troll, debaters. PGC is right.

If someone wants to come up with a factual and reasoned argument against immigrants, bring it on.

[The Chair]

Whilst not wishing to "feed a troll", as Chair I feel the need to intervene here.

This is the Drawing Room. It is a place with the intent of provoking intelligent, reasoned, well-informed and rational debate. It is not the BBC's 'Have Your Say'.

Posters who continually post unintelligent, ill-reasoned, ill-informed and irrational nonsense (I'm looking at you, Tarot) will not be welcomed here.

There are two sides to the debate on immigration and I'd welcome further exploration of that here. I will not tolerate borderline racist, islamophobic bigotry. Continued infringement of these guidelines will result in the deletion of posts, threads and at worst prohibit access to the Drawing Room.

Thank you.

The Chair.

[Tarot]

I am no bird, and no net ensnares me;I am a free human being with an independant will,: Jane Eyre, novel by Charlotte Bronte.

[Huguenot]

I suspect she was a better speller than that.

Either way, the good Charlotte Bronte also observed this:

"Prejudices, it is well known, are most difficult to eradicate from the heart whose soil has never been loosened or fertilized by education; they grow firm there, firm as weeds among stones."

I suspect that your spelling and your opinion go hand in hand, both are loosely considered and poorly informed.

Foor all your fervent admiration, I'm not sure that Charlotte would have been to keen on you ;-)

[Tarot]

Whose soul. I think you meant. bad spelling there,Stop stalking me round the forum, the chair has already informed me.Your like a dog with a bone.

[Huguenot]

No, chicken.

It was 'soil'. It's metaphor you see. She's talking about growing things, about cultivation. Most of us try and grow useful crops, but Charlotte's comparing prejudices to weeds. Not very useful, and sucks the life out of everything else.

She doesn't stop there. She talks about weeds amongst stones. So she's implying that the environemnt for prejudices, the surroundings if you like, are totally sterile and unproductive.

I'm not stalking you, you just keep turning up in areas that I find interesting. It's funny that those people who most oppress others are the first to squeal if they feel oppressed themselve?

[Tarot]

So youve got a library, and a Victor Meldew complex, arent you usually on the Dulwich village forum.? This drawing room is for serious discussion about over population I.was told so I wont be here Although the theory about euthanasia. has crossed my mind for some old folk.

[The Chair]

Pack it in, the pair of you - or take it outside.

Please don't let this thread descend further or I shall have to lock it down.

Regards,

The Chair

[SteveT]

Why do the immigrants appear to flood in here?

Why do we have a seemingly open door policy?

Would it not be wiser to encourage a closed door policy, assuming that all the immigrants would be employed working for the betterment of their own countries?

[Brendan]

SteveT Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Why do the immigrants appear to flood in here?

Seriously?

Most ?immigrants? in Britain come from countries where Britain was considered just a part of the international network they were in. Coming to Britain is no stranger than people from Britain going to their countries, which they have been doing for centuries. It has less to do with coming to reap the benefits of some milk and honey society and more to do with cultural and political ties and often convenience.

It?s a bit rich when people who historically were too frightened or useless to be the ones to branch out further than the white cliffs try to claim some sort of carte blanche of ownership over an island that is just a part of a wider international community built by other people.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Steve. Your perception of Britain being the only destination for immigrants is seriously askew. Do some checking before you just vent prejudice

Please

Pretty please

[Huguenot]

The UK welcomes immigration because of the benefits it brings. Proponents of 'closed door' policies usually have either unusually limited access to information, or a limited ability to processs it.

We don't welcome immigration because we're trying to help anyone else out, we do it because we're helping ourselves and for many reasons. Here's a few:

Economically immigrants often do the work that locals won't, they do it at lower cost, and consequently deliver greater profits for companies, lower costs to consumers and greater tax revenues to the state.

Estimates from the Home Office calculate that immigrants pay ?2.5 billion more in taxes than they receive in benefits. That's free cash to pay your parents' pensions, your healthcare, and your childrens education.

'Immigration' is a two way process, where similar rights are granted to UK citizens who wish to live abroad. This strengthens the trade relations of the home country, increasing the exchange of goods and services and often providing access to vital resources that cannot be obtained on home soil.

The cultural diversity offered by immigration drives creativity and innovation, creating economic growth.

Socially cultural diversity delivers greater social variety from restaurants to the arts, enhancing the quality of life for local residents.

In the medium term, immigration provides the UK with a younger workforce. The ratio of retired people to workers is expected to dramatically increase in the coming decades that would result to significant changes in the Security System (i.e. pensions & benefits). Immigrants, with their children and younger relatives, will bring in more young workforce that can slow down the increase of this very important ratio.

At a vital level, immigrants usually arrive because of employment preference. This means that they offer skills that are scarce in the country. This will bring about various advantages. For example, if the supply of native neurologists is low, influx of more neurologist immigrants will significantly help the health care industry.

Britain welcomes immigration because the benefits far outweight the disadvantages.

In short, we welcome immigration because better informed people are making better decisions than bigots on the future welfare and success of the United Kingdom.