Italia!

[apbremer]

Bravissimo.

[miga]

What was the referendum on - and what direct effect will it have on the future of the EU?

[titch juicy]

Why Bravissimo? I genuinely don't understand what's going on with this one.

In the meantime, Wunderbar to the Austrian people.

[JohnL]

Some changes to the constitution - no-one seems sure what.

No wonder they voted no :)

[Jeremy]

Hmmm... basically the pro-EU PM lost a referendum on a reform package, and is therefore standing down. It's being seen as a proxy victory for their brand of Eurosceptic populism.

[titch juicy]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hmmm... basically the pro-EU PM lost a referendum

> on a reform package, and is therefore standing

> down. It's being seen as a proxy victory for their

> brand of Eurosceptic populism.

That doesn't sound very bravissimo to me. But i'm very much a europhile.

[red devil]

Post-Mussolini, the Italian constitution makes it very difficult for such a dictatorial/authoritarian figure to rule Italy again. Which is understandable, however it's also meant that successive governments find it just as difficult to govern, it's why there has been so many elections/pacts etc over the years. The soon to be resigning Italian PM wanted a change to the constitution in order to give him and the governing party more power, in this case the means to deliver an austerity package. As is their way, voters took the opportunity to make a protest vote, but it wasn't a straight forward vote against the EU. Some would've voted No for constitutional reasons, some on the EU, and some on a general unhappiness with the sitting Gov and PM. Having a referendum mid-term wasn't the Italian PM's brightest idea.

An interesting aside of the Austrian vote...

Anton Mahdalik, a Freedom party member of the Vienna city council, criticised former Ukip leader Nigel Farage for contributing to the party?s defeat after claiming on Fox News that Hofer would hold a referendum on Austria leaving the EU. ?That didn?t help us, it hindered us,? he said, saying that an overwhelming majority of Austrians support EU membership.

Hofer himself described Farage?s comments as a ?crass misjudgment?, adding that ?it doesn?t fill me with joy when someone meddles from outside?.

Well done Nige!..:)

[JohnL]

Adding my congratulations to Mr Farage for keeping the right wing at bay.

[miga]

red devil Wrote:

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> but it wasn't a straight forward vote

> against the EU.

That was my impression too - seems pretty indirect to me. Not that the papers presented it that way in the headlines. "Italians vote on constitutional reform, which may down the road influence their relationship with the EU in an unspecified way" isn't as catchy as "ALARM! ALARM! JUMP OVERBOARD IMMEDIATELY!".

[????]

The point is that the Vote was a defacto vote of confidence in the Italian PM rather than his constitutional reform, as he said he's resign if he lost; he did, he has - there may now be an election (but not necessarily), in which case the two big eurosceptic parties (the comedian's one and the Northern League) are ahead in the polls and potentially could offer a referendum on certainly The Euro, more (likely) and maybe the EU. However getting a majority in Italy is not easy...

[????]

PS I knew Italy was pretty sclerotic, but I read in the paper this weekend that since the advent of the Euro (1999) Italy's economy hasn't grown , France's has by 20%, Germany's 21% and the UK's by 33%. Thank god we never joined that particular 'project'*

If only El Pibe and Hugenot were still here I'd resurrect the old Euro thread from way back :)

*blows grateful kiss to Gordon and Ed B

[miga]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The point is that the Vote was a defacto vote of

> confidence in the Italian PM rather than his

> constitutional reform, as he said he's resign if

> he lost; he did, he has - there may now be an

> election (but not necessarily), in which case the

> two big eurosceptic parties (the comedian's one

> and the Northern League) are ahead in the polls

> and potentially could offer a referendum on

> certainly The Euro, more (likely) and maybe the

> EU. However getting a majority in Italy is not

> easy...

Yep, pretty indirect.

[Jeremy]

Nobody is claiming it's a simple anti-EU vote... but the opponents making the most noise were the Eurosceptic parties, so they're obviously seeing it as one small victory, and it would appear to give them a little bit of momentum.

Of course it doesn't actually mean that 60% support withdrawal from EU.

[apbremer]

100% if they have any sense. Back to a devalued lira and Happy days again.

[sabrina79]

the referendum was not for the now ex pm Renzi ......but for a change of the of the Government, less people working there and less money for them ....if you were voting YES. But most of people especially the young one voted NO because they thought was for Renzi..... Anyway Most of the Italian people are good to complain but they don t like to change !!!!

My point is that Mr Renzi was a copy cat of David Cameron just for having more "Show" .......Italian people need to change and fight for the change .......Poor country