Anglo- Saxon London

[DulwichFox]

Anglo= Saxon London.

Click for Detailed map.. with local area.. expandable..

http://assets.londonist.com/uploads/2016/10/anglo5_copy_1.jpg

DulwichFox

[Bookworm]

I'm looking at this with my daughter, who is a history undergrad. She started singing Wemba Lea. One for the football fans! We love the spellings of the local names and it shows how they have developed over the centuries. Fascinating. Thanks for posting.

[edhistory]

Has your daughter finished laughing?

[Rolo Tomasi]

Are you saying it's a load of crap edhistory?

[edhistory]

I'm grateful to DulwichFox for adding to my collection of bad maps.

The prize for 2016 must go to the map in the Peckham Society News that shows the Great North Wood growing out of the Peckham tidal marsh.

[Jeremy]

To be fair, it does appear to be drawn with crayons.

[DulwichFox]

Well yes.. there is an element of 'tongue in cheek' but someone has gone to a lot of trouble to produce it.

I think it deserves some credit. Not to sure about the place names but 'Wemba Lea' was what first caught my eye.

Pure Genius.

DulwichFox

[titch juicy]

Toponomy[edit]

Wembley is derived from the Old English proper name "Wemba" and the Old English "Lea" for meadow or clearing. The name was first mentioned in the charter of 825 of Selvin. King Beornwulf.

[DulwichFox]

titch juicy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Toponomy

> Wembley is derived from the Old English proper

> name "Wemba" and the Old English "Lea" for meadow

> or clearing. The name was first mentioned in the

> charter of 825 of Selvin. King Beornwulf.

Well ? There you go..

Foxy

[Jeremy]

You're right, Fox - didn't mean to suggest it wasn't worthy of credit. What I meant is that it looks like somebody's homework or school project, and I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting it should be treated as accurate reference material. It's a bit of fun to see the place names, etc. I suppose it would be asking too much to suggest that 'edhistory' lightens up a little?

[ianr]

"In 2011, we put together a map showing the London area in Anglo Saxon times (roughly speaking, 500-1066AD). It's pieced together from many resources, showing our guess at the roads, rivers, forests and marshland that characterised the region. The main purpose was to highlight the many villages, hamlets and farmsteads whose names are still part of modern London. For example, the map shows 'Wemba Lea', the land belonging to a local chieftain by the name of Wemba. We know nothing about Mr Wemba, yet his name is familiar to millions, perhaps billions, through its continuation into our own times as Wembley. Similarly, Croydon is a corruption of Crog Dene, which meant something like 'valley of the crocuses'." http://londonist.com/2014/01/anglo-saxon-london-map-updated

[Jeremy]

And there was me trying to be charitable...

[Sue]

:))

[ianr]

The map's author, Matt Brown, did comment, on the same page: "I didn't really use any old maps, as none exist until Tudor times. It's a combination of many, many resources. I started by drawing the river system, which is well known and little changed from ancient times. I then plotted the Roman roads, using reference material from the Museum of London and other sources. The place names come from a variety of sources. I used the Domesday Book as the backbone, supplemented with references from British History Online and other scholarly publications. In most cases, you'll find variations on the place name, as names changed over the centuries, and were given different spellings. I've generally gone for the earliest known appellation. I've also been writing about the etymology and history of London for well over a decade, so it no doubt incorporates many of my own personal biases like any map."

One of his other contributions is specifically about old London maps: http://londonist.com/london/oldmaps.

One I found myself, an 1810 version of late Anglo-Saxon London proper, is at http://www.antique-maps-online.co.uk/london-2912.html or http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/onlineex/crace/l/007zzz000000001u00006000.html and gives a starker impression of the reality. http://opendomesday.org/place/TQ3376/peckham/, for example, reports just four households in Peckham, and twenty nine in Camberwell.

The Oxford Dictionary of British Place Names (available online via Southwark Libraries site) is a bit disappointing on more recent London district names -- no entry, for example, for any of the first three I checked, Colindale, Colliers Wood, and Nunhead.

[edhistory]

> I started by drawing the river system, which is well known and little changed from ancient times

Well, he didn't do very well when it came to South East London "river" systems. He seems totally ignorant of the topography South of the Thames.

Perhaps Matt Brown lives in North London.

[KrackersMaracas]

I found the map interesting! I loved the place names particularly, thanks DF for sharing. Edhistory - are you suggesting it's incorrect, do you have another map you have come across which shows the local area from a similar time?

[edhistory]

> I loved the place names

Which are largely wrong.

> Edhistory - are you suggesting it's incorrect

Not just "incorrect", but badly wrong for South London. I do not know about North London.

You can follow this through from the "ancient rivers" assertion. You might also like to check out the construction date of "Earl's Sluice" which is shown on the map.

> do you have another map you have come across which shows the local area from a similar time?

Yes, but only partial areas covered by archaeological reports. Don't forget that the area North of Camberwell and Peckham was tidal marsh, and not worth mapping.

The best free online-source I know is the London Archaeologist archive. The newly originated data about Battersea Eyot (Island) appears here.

Most new material appears in academic journals where you have to buy hard copies or use JSTOR access. Does Southwark Libraries have a JSTOR subscription?