A fair society ...

[????]

HAL9000 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Spot on DJKQ. My work brings me into contact with

> the rich - almost every one of the ones I've known

> was in the right place at the right time.

> Shakespeare summed it up beautifully in Julius

> Caesar:

>

> "There is a tide in the affairs of men. Which

> taken at the flood, leads on to fortune; Omitted,

> all the voyage of their life is bound in shallows

> and in miseries."

>

Cock. I've met and worked for plenty of people who have made some serious money on their own back, including a couple in the top 20 Times list...and they all take risks and many have turned their backs on relatively prosperous conventional careers (wage slavery as they see it)or no=prospect dead end jobs. 99% of people just haven't got those balls.

Where i'd agree is that many people in well paid professional jobs in the city/law etc etc owe much of it to their priveliged middle class backgrounds and educations more than their hardwork (though many work hard too) and heir intelligence.

Traders are different though...their results are there, under scrutiny (unless they're french) on a daily basis, they're measured on proper results not how far up the arse of their boss they are.

[reggie]

Do you remember the Monty Python sketch where the city bastard character is asked to give to charity and thinks it's an investment and cant get the idea of giving. Well this topic reminds me of that sketch. The unfairness of giving and not getting anything in return.

[Emerson Crane]

99% of people just haven't got those balls. (What a sweeping generalistion and total horseshit to boot)

Or have got children, mortgages, etc etc to support and are therefore in no position to take a gamble.

[*Bob*]

But of course they didn't get around to doing it before they had children or mortgages either.

[*Bob*]

Children and mortgages provide wonderful cover for that unfinished novel, curtailed rock-stardom, business mega-empire that never was etc etc

[Emerson Crane]

*Bob* Wrote:

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> But of course they didn't get around to doing it

> before they had children or mortgages either.

Nonetheless a sweeping and lazy generalisation, which seems to hold up those that have made the gamble as superior beings worthy of puting up on a pedestal, and something we should all aspire to.

[*Bob*]

I'm still on chapter three myself.

[Emerson Crane]

*Bob* Wrote:

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> Children and mortgages provide wonderful cover for

> that unfinished novel, curtailed rock-stardom,

> business mega-empire that never was etc etc

Not all of us wanted to do these things anyway, some of us are content with what we have, is that such an alien concept for people to grasp?

[Emerson Crane]

I'm still living in my cottage by the river in Dorest, making my own bread, growing my own vegatables, slaughtering my own animals, which is something 99% of all people haven't got the balls to do.

[*Bob*]

I agree.. it's not an alien concept at all.

I'm not getting at anyone who doesn't want to do these things, nor putting people on a pedestal who do do (do do?) them - I'm just getting at people who spend their lives bemoaning the fact that they coulda been a contender doing this or that if only a or b or c or d hadn't have happened and stopped them, when the plain truth was that they just didn't actually get round to doing anything - or in some cases, even trying.

[*Bob*]

Emerson Crane Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm still living in my cottage by the river in

> Dorest, making my own bread, growing my own

> vegatables, slaughtering my own animals, which is

> something 99% of all people haven't got the balls

> to do.

Well that's case proven then. At least one tenth of Dulwich bang-on about wanting to do this, but can't because they have children and mortgages etc etc.

[mockney piers]

But I coulda been a contender if I'd had one iota of ambition or drive or the foggiest idea what i coulda contended for.

[????]

Oh I agree...Emerson, the money side is just an example for want of a better phrase 'living your dream etc' ...most people don't do it, unless sitting on a crowded train, working for w*nkers, living in a box that costs as much as a castle on the Isle of Skye for 4 weeks holiday a year and a bit of grub in Franklins once a week is your dream of course

[Brendan]

So far I?ve made a roaring success of being me. The rest is just admin. I get other people to do it.

[katie1997]

Emerson Crane Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm still living in my cottage by the river in

> Dorest, making my own bread, growing my own

> vegatables, slaughtering my own animals, which is

> something 99% of all people haven't got the balls

> to do.

Hugh F-W on the EDF - great, hi there! Got a book planned for Christmas? :D

Anyway, you're right that not everyone aspires to those other things, I think its just that it had to be pointed out that not everyone who is at the top of their game and stinking rich etc got there because they were already, well, stinking rich.

I'm on Chapter 4 btw ...

[????]

I think *Bob* got my point and Emerson completley missed it...there's no pedestal or worship or inherent value in what I'm saying but people who've made a lot of money on their own backs have by and large done a bit more than 'got lucky', although luck plays a part too.

You can think their scum, you can think their tossers, you can think it's wrong or obscene...but they've got balls

[Emerson Crane]

*Bob* Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I agree.. it's not an alien concept at all.

>

> I'm not getting at anyone who doesn't want to do

> these things, nor putting people on a pedestal who

> do do (do do?) them - I'm just getting at people

> who spend their lives bemoaning the fact that they

> coulda been a contender doing this or that if only

> a or b or c or d hadn't have happened and stopped

> them, when the plain truth was that they just

> didn't actually get round to doing anything - or

> in some cases, even trying.

Fair enough, I see where you're coming from.

[mockney piers]

Really? Most project managers in the city that I worked with just got promoted out of harms' way. They were universally appalling and I never understood why Organisations insist on employing so many of them. I've worked on so many top heavy projects I've lost count, and I doubt that any of them were on less than 80k.

Weirdly, despite endless ramblings about Public sector inefficiency, my experience there has been better.

Did any of them have balls?

No, some got a cushy number thanks to a mate after time in the forces, some just moseyed their way there, but most of them just went to public school.

Thinking about it, what do you mean by 'a lot of money'?

[????]

MP read the thread through...i'm not talking about people eaning a 'decent salary'

[????]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> HAL9000 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Spot on DJKQ. My work brings me into contact

> with

> > the rich - almost every one of the ones I've

> known

> > was in the right place at the right time.

> > Shakespeare summed it up beautifully in Julius

> > Caesar:

> >

> > "There is a tide in the affairs of men. Which

> > taken at the flood, leads on to fortune;

> Omitted,

> > all the voyage of their life is bound in

> shallows

> > and in miseries."

> >

>

>

> Cock. I've met and worked for plenty of people who

> have made some serious money on their own back,

> including a couple in the top 20 Times list...and

> they all take risks and many have turned their

> backs on relatively prosperous conventional

> careers (wage slavery as they see it)or

> no=prospect dead end jobs. 99% of people just

> haven't got those balls.

>

> Where i'd agree is that many people in well paid

> professional jobs in the city/law etc etc owe much

> of it to their priveliged middle class backgrounds

> and educations more than their hardwork (though

> many work hard too) and heir intelligence.

>

> Traders are different though...their results are

> there, under scrutiny (unless they're french) on a

> daily basis, they're measured on proper results

> not how far up the arse of their boss they are.

If you can't be arsed I've found it here ;-)

[Ted Max]

A post that started with cock, moved through the balls, and ended up the arse.

Poor old repressed Quids.

[mockney piers]

80k is a decent salary or a lot of money? I'll let you point me to the relevant post rather than trawl through 7 pages of ramblings...again...thank you very much.

A quick swizz shows ?58k to be in top 5% and ?118k to be in top 1%.

Are they merely decent salaries, are we talking that weird new yardstick 'more than the prime minister' or are you referring to obscene money....can you give me pointers on that too when you're done patronising me?

[mockney piers]

Ha ha, cheers quids, i take it all back ;-P

[????]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Nah the story is simple because the concept of

> fairness is simple

>

> And timeless. Fairness isn?t a recent buzzword. It

> has defined the better aspects of our whole

> evolution as a species. To try and stifle a yawn

> or opt out of the debate is poor

>

> *Bob* - that chapter is unwritten. Occasional

> flirting is as far as it gets I think

Piffle. I'm with Harry Lime

You know what the fellow said ? in Italy, for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace ? and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.

[SeanMacGabhann]

When something seems too cute to be true, it probably is

Any country which can produce the likes of

Le Corbusier

HR Giger

John bleedin? Calvin

Not to mentione the bow-down beauty of

Ursula Andress and Irene Jacob

Is a bit more than clocks and chocolates

And not only that but APPARENTLY, lot?s of bankers want to go an live there

Not Italy

(it should be confessed that the list of notable people on wiki doesn?t throw up many jewels)