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Yes, these are all good points. I agree with you, that division has led us down dangerous paths in the past. And I deplore any kind of racism (as I think you probably know). But I feel that a lot of the current wave of xenophobia we're witnessing is actually more about a general malaise and discontent. I know non-white people around here who are surprisingly vocal about immigrants - legal or otherwise. I think this feeling transcends skin colour for a lot of people and isn't as simple as, say, the Jew hatred of the 1930s or the Irish and Black racism that we saw laterally. I think people feel ignored and looked down upon. What you don't realise, Sephiroth, is that I actually agree with a lot of what you're saying. I just think that looking down on people because of their voting history and opinions is self-defeating. And that's where Labour's getting it wrong and Reform is reaping the rewards. -
@Sephiroth you made some interesting points on the economy, on the Lammy thread. Thought it worth broadening the discussion. Reeves (irrespective of her financial competence) clearly was too downbeat on things when Labour came into power. But could there have been more honesty on the liklihood of taxes going up (which they have done, and will do in any case due to the freezing of personal allowances). It may have been a silly commitment not to do this, but were you damned if you do and damned if you don't? -
I'd quit this thread, let those who just want to slag Labour off have their own thread. Your views on the economy are worth debating. I'm just stunned how there wasn't this level of noise with the last government. I could try to get some dirt on Badenoch but she is pointless Whilst I am not a fan of the Daily Mirror at least there is some respite from Labour bashing. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/grenfell-hillsborough-families-make-powerful-36175862 https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/nigel-farage-facing-parliamentary-investigation-36188612
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That is a bit cake and eat it tho, isn’t it? At what point do we stop respecting other people’s opinions and beliefs because history shows us we sometimes simply have no other choice you are holding some comfort blanket that allows you to believe we are all equal and all valid and we can simply voice different options - without that ever impacting on the real world Were the racists we fought in previous generations different? Were their beliefs patronised by the elites of the time? Or do we learn lessons and avoid mistakes of the past? racists/bigots having “just as much to say” is both true and yet, a thing we have learnt from the past. The lesson was not “ooh let’s hear them out. They sound interesting and valid and as worthy of an audience as people who hold the opposite opinion”
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