Traditional Chinese Medicine

[Jeremy]

david_carnell Wrote:

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> Chinese medicine = utter nonsense Narnia. It's a

> placebo at best and harmful at worst. Don't waste

> your money.

I'm not normally an advocate of "alternative" medicine, but what's the problem with Chinese medicine? Why is it so far-fetched that herbal medicines may contain an active ingredient which will ease the symptoms? You know, there are Western medicines which have started life as Eastern herbal medicine.

As Huguenot says, the main difference is that in the west, scientists will try to find out why and how it works, extract the active ingredient, and put it through extensive trials. In traditional Chinese herbalism, they'll observe that it works through trial-and-error, and then make up a theory to support it.

[RosieH]

Huguenot, an X-ray would also help diagnose pneumonia.

Narnia, I wouldn't worry too much. A few years ago, following a bout of pneumonia caused by Scotland, I had a cough that lingered for about 5-6 months. It was annoying as hell and also debilitating (weak and wheezy is no fun).

My GP sent me for X-rays, blood and asthma tests, all kinds of malarkey. It was taking too long (wait weeks for one test, negative results, wait weeks for next test), so I went private. Ended up blowing a grand on a private GP (intravenous vitamins anyone?) all to be told I was probably still a bit weak from the pneumonia and just needed time to get over it.

Gradually it went away. Probably would have gone away quicker if I had spent the thousand pounds on a nice beach holiday instead.

[SeanMacGabhann]

All true Jeremy, but the crucial bit for me is that ?tested? bit

I?m sure there are many medicinal benefits to the products they sell but let?s be honest ? the main selling point of these stores in the UK is the sense that Big Pharma is only a money-making-complex and that TCM is somehow imbued with a purity and mysticism, untainted by such concerns. Which is nonsense

If someone is cured by chinese medicine then they would have been cured by any other medicine. If they have tried other medicine and got nowhere but chinese medicine worked then that?s probably them getting better anyway and coincided. It?s like people suffering a cold for 4 days and taking medicine and not getting better, but when they went to a herbalist they were much better. Yeah, and if they hadn?t have gone they would be much better anyway because the cold?s time had come and gone

[RosieH]

Sean, while I think that's absolutely true of herbal medicines, what's the deal with acupuncture? I assume placebo, but I'm too lazy to look it up...

[SeanMacGabhann]

Acupuncture has a place in my heart ? when I was young it just looked the coolest thing ever

But yeah.. bobbins too. Well maybe not complete bobbins ? it?s like spending those thousands on the beach holiday.. pampering yourself and believeing it?s doing you good are likely to have a positive effect

[????]

I seem to remember that one bit (and it was just a small bit) of acupuncture had been shown to work through decent clinical trials...maybe wrong

[SeanMacGabhann]

This bit maybe?

[RosieH]

Would punching someone in the face have the same effect?

[Alec John Moore]

Something akin to a Glasgow Kiss, perhaps?

[Narnia]

Can you prove this Sean?

[Huguenot]

Having been in a number of brawls, it certainly does give you a fair old rush.

I didn't experience anything that suggested it would treat herpes, mind.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I?m unlikely to fund any research or conduct trials myself Narnia, no. But having read about it and observing for myself, the balance of proof lies with shops selling me products (when I have a cold I don?t bother with any medicine, I just rest up until it?s gone. It?s not just chinese medicine I think is often unnecessary)

[RosieH]

Crikey Sean, that's taking martyrdom to a whole new level - not even paracetamol to ease the acheyness?

[Mick Mac]

St John of Youghal - I can see it now.

[SeanMacGabhann]

lady MacGabhann sometimes foreces a lemsip down me (that has paracetemol doesn't it?)

can't say it does anything to relieve anything

(you are talking to a guy who only registered with a doctor in his 40s after all)

[SeanMacGabhann]

at least TRY and keep up appearances Mick!

[Mick Mac]

Nurofen Cold and Flu if really bad - you can get hooked on those little babies.

[Narnia]

Sounds like you're one of those who enjoys suffering Sean.

[Mick Mac]

More suffering = Greater chance of place in Heaven. Sean is playing the long game. He wants that Utopia sooo bad.

[Jeremy]

I think most of what you say is true Sean, but I was really responding to Carnell's claim that all Chinese medicine is a placebo... which is obviously incorrect.

But, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that there are established herbal medicines out there which haven't yet been picked up by mainstream/western medicine. It has certainly happened before, it will probably happen again.

[Mick Mac]

Surely many prescription medicines have some element of natural ingredients or derive some impact from a natural source - surely therefore some herbal remedies must have benefits.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I'm not not taking medicine to suffer! I'm just not taking it because it doesn't do any good so why bother

[Jeremy]

That's what I was Saying Mick. Of course they do.

Although to be fair, I'm sure many of them don't...

[RosieH]

Sean - you're freakishly paracetamol and decongestant immune?

Lots of others of us find them effective ;-)

[wee quinnie]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

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> I'm not not taking medicine to suffer! I'm just

> not taking it because it doesn't do any good so

> why bother

Well it doesn't cure what ails you, that much is true, but it does alleviate some of the symptoms, and surely that is worth something? No?