8 June

[nxjen]

The u-turn on student loans didn't help but I think many, including myself who wasn't too enthralled with Miliband, who considered voting LibDem decided not to as it was in effect possibly a vote for the Tories and the continued coalition.

[JohnL]

Tim Farron needs to nail stone dead the question that is being asked of him (re evangelical religious beliefs) if he wants success

Tories will never let that one go once the dirty tricks campaign starts.

[Jeremy]

rendelharris Wrote:

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> we're both going to vote LibDem now, if enough people do...

But isn't that mentality one of the reasons they've always struggled in elections? The fear that a vote for them is wasted.

Personally I'll be voting for them, as they're currently the party that most closely reflect my political views, and because they're the only major(ish) pro-EU party. And because the alternatives are all pretty much unbearable. Even if they don't win the seat (they won't), a decent increase on 2015 should at least give them some much needed momentum.

[red devil]

JohnL Wrote:

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> Tim Farron needs to nail stone dead the question

> that is being asked of him (re evangelical

> religious beliefs) if he wants success

>

> Tories will never let that one go once the dirty

> tricks campaign starts.

They'd have to be very careful on that one, what with May being a vicar's daughter and having her own Christian beliefs, albeit non-evangelical. Besides, I think the Tory dirty tricks dept have enough ammo from Corbyn and Abbot to keep them busy...

[JohnL]

The Tories are also going to harp on about Corbyn and McDonnell's IRA connections

It's so depressing that there i no opposition to speak of - I'm hoping we get surprised by something.

[rendelharris]

Blah Blah Wrote:

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As a Labour member, this is the

> only way to be rid of him, and as much as I hate

> the prospect of May till 2022, with Corbyn at the

> helm, we would have been looking at 2025 at least.

> So Labour finally gets itself a chance of a

> credible leader and rebuilds.

That is a very cheering and positive thought, thank you, could be just five more years of Tories instead of eight. I needed that!

[JohnL]

red devil Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> JohnL Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Tim Farron needs to nail stone dead the

> question

> > that is being asked of him (re evangelical

> > religious beliefs) if he wants success

> >

> > Tories will never let that one go once the

> dirty

> > tricks campaign starts.

>

> They'd have to be very careful on that one, what

> with May being a vicar's daughter and having her

> own Christian beliefs, albeit non-evangelical.

> Besides, I think the Tory dirty tricks dept have

> enough ammo from Corbyn and Abbot to keep them

> busy...

It's already started

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/tim-farron-interview-with-cathy-newman-of-channel-4-news-sees-liberal-democrats-leader-branded-an-absolute-disgrace_uk_58f67d6be4b0de5bac41d1e0

and

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/04/18/lib-dem-leader-tim-farron-branded-disgrace-after-refusing-to-answer-gay-sex-question/

except it appears to be Labour co-ordinating the attack so far.

[Jeremy]

red devil Wrote:

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> They'd have to be very careful on that one, what

> with May being a vicar's daughter and having her

> own Christian beliefs, albeit non-evangelical.

Exactly this.

His beliefs do put me off a bit, and in some ways seem at odds with the modern, progressive party they want to be - but he has stated his religion is a private matter which should have no bearing on his politics. He is anti faith school, and has called for disestablishment of the church.

He is much more of a secularist than Theresa May, who is actually giving faith schools MORE freedom to discriminate based on faith.

[JohnL]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> red devil Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > They'd have to be very careful on that one,

> what

> > with May being a vicar's daughter and having

> her

> > own Christian beliefs, albeit non-evangelical.

>

> Exactly this.

>

> His beliefs do put me off a bit, and in some ways

> seem at odds with the modern, progressive party

> they want to be - but he has stated his religion

> is a private matter which should have no bearing

> on his politics. He is anti faith school, and has

> called for disestablishment of the church.

>

> He is much more of a secularist than Theresa May,

> who is actually giving faith schools MORE freedom

> to discriminate based on faith.

Being a Remainer - LD should be the party for me.

But "We are all sinners" scares me - and I don't even know why.

Maybe secretly I think I'm going to be judged :)

May will avoid criticism - whilst everybody else will get hammered

- we all know that ;)

[red devil]

Isn't ''We are all sinners'' one of the basic tenets of the Christian belief, as is repenting your sins, being forgiven etc? The problem with this issue is that being gay isn't like, say, committing a crime. With that you get a fine/custodial sentence, say you're sorry and it needn't happen again. Whereas a person can't just stop being gay, it's who they are sexually. Some of the church has seeked a compromise on this by saying it's ok to be gay as long as you don't have sex. Yeah right...

[JohnL]

red devil Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Isn't ''We are all sinners'' one of the basic

> tenets of the Christian belief, as is repenting

> your sins, being forgiven etc? The problem with

> this issue is that being gay isn't like, say,

> committing a crime. With that you get a

> fine/custodial sentence, say you're sorry and it

> needn't happen again. Whereas a person can't just

> stop being gay, it's who they are sexually. Some

> of the church has seeked a compromise on this by

> saying it's ok to be gay as long as you don't have

> sex. Yeah right...

I think it is - but for an agnostic it can be worrying.

A Moslem guy said to me once (on drinking this time) - why

do you care if I think you're going to hell if you don't

believe in God anyway.

It's just not a nice feeling if you suspect someone thinks

that about you.

[JohnL]

Anyway back to politics

Labour MPs are calling on Sadiq Khan to help them (calling him the most powerful Labour politician in the country)

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/labour-mps-call-on-london-mayor-sadiq-khan-for-general-election-campaign-boost-a3517821.html

There's definitely two camps in Labour.

[rendelharris]

JohnL Wrote:

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> A Moslem guy said to me once (on drinking this

> time) - why

> do you care if I think you're going to hell if you

> don't

> believe in God anyway.

I think the answer to that is that if you believe God's going to clobber me then I'm worried that you're going to think that you clobbering me is pretty much carrying out God's will.

[Jenny1]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> He is anti faith school, and has

> called for disestablishment of the church.

>

> He is much more of a secularist than Theresa May,

> who is actually giving faith schools MORE freedom

> to discriminate based on faith.

Agreed. Theresa May's use of 'religion' in politics concerns me much more than Tim Farron's private Christianity. She needs to follow his example and keep the two things separate.

I don't think anyone's faith is anyone else's business - until the person professing religious belief chooses to make it so. So since Mrs M has brought her own Christianity up I feel free to comment on it. I was brought up in the C of E myself and it strikes me that she represents the unattractive side of the Church. Remember when it was called 'The Tory Party at prayer'? She's part of that inherently establishment, feudal part of the C of E tradition. She does not, I'm afraid, show the natural compassion and open mindedness that I admire in my sincere Christian friends.

I'm very happy to vote for a Lib Dem party led by someone who tries to 'live' by ethical values rather than make speeches that suggests he has delusions of being the Pope or the Archbishop of Canterbury.

[JohnL]

The rules for this election already seem to be May is above criticism - she won't do any TV debates - then bring on the empty chair. She has distanced herself from the "saboteur" headline in the Mail - which was disgraceful. But the right wing press are her attack dogs now.

[Alan Medic]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> I predict the lowest turnout of any GE ever.

How come? I'm still hopeful Brexit won't happen though I'm probably in a number of 1. I'm more eager to vote in this election than any other.

[Alan Medic]

???? Wrote:

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> Well probably no surprise but I think the best

> outcome for the country by far will be a large

> conservative majority

>

> - this will give the Brexit negotiations more

> credibility

I don't see a larger Tory majority making any difference to Brexit negotiations. They will be whatever they turn out to be. Where does credibility come into it?

[????]

Theresa May unlikely to be as worried by how the negotiations are panning out in terms of thinking about the reaction among her own party if she has a clear mandate (sorry Seabag)which will give her negotiating team more confidence and more room, the EU negotiators will also be aware of this so less likely/able to play hardball. Basically I think it'll make compromise easier.

[nxjen]

George Osborne will not be standing - every cloud has a silver lining

[Otta]

I too have some doubts over Farron due to his potentially odd beliefs, and would welcome a bit of clarity.

[Jenny1]

I don't share your concerns Otta. I think his words and actions make it clear he's a proper social and cultural liberal - good enough for me. The inner workings of people's souls should remain their own business.

[JohnL]

Jenny1 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I don't share your concerns Otta. I think his

> words and actions make it clear he's a proper

> social and cultural liberal - good enough for me.

> The inner workings of people's souls should remain

> their own business.

Apparently he was cornered in the House of Commons by

Nigel Evans and says in the immortal words of the Pet

Shop Boys (not)

It's NOT a Sin

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/lib-dem-leader-tim-farron-10255521

[JohnL]

The media seems to have tried to get to Farron today

(It'll be McDonnell tomorrow maybe)

The gay sin issue

Whether he'd form another coalition with the Tories

Sharing a platform with Tony Blair

And now apparently he's been endorsed by Ann Widdecombe.

If he's got a cat I'd say stay out tonight.

[Jeremy]

Farron's beliefs do trouble me a bit. I can't help but think about Blair's "God told me to go to war with Iraq" moment. Aside from the fact that he was quite obviously deluded, it raises the question of whether we really want to put such power in the hands of somebody who looks to the supernatural for practical or moral guidance.

But given the opposition, I'm prepared to cut him some slack.

[Otta]

What Jeremy said.

Jenny1 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I don't share your concerns Otta. I think his

> words and actions make it clear he's a proper

> social and cultural liberal - good enough for me.

> The inner workings of people's souls should remain

> their own business.

It's their own business if they don't let it seep in to their working life.