8 June

[Lordship 516]

@Cardelia

Correction - Top 20% are paid six times more than the bottom 10% - not a pleasant picture of a fair society.

Growing inequality has meant that the larger tax burden on the richest reflects their rising incomes.

I think fairness would start at a point whereby people are able to pay their way including housing costs from their net earnings.

The proportion of total income tax paid by the top 1% rose to 27.5 percent in the 2015-16 tax year from 24.4 percent in 2007-08.

The government?s policy of gradually raising the point at which people start paying income tax meant that the share of the adult population paying it fell to 56.2 percent from 65.7 percent.

Of total income earners, 56.2% pay income tax - 44% pay no income tax at all; they don't earn enough to pay income tax.

The other issue is complex & debatable ad infinitum. However, you get self=promoting groups everywhere - especially supporting each other in the City of London - and they are not so fantastic and can always be easily replaced. None of us is missed for very long when we are gone.

[jaywalker]

robbin Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> jaywalker Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> >

> > "...in Bourdieu's language, the original Marx

> (and

> > Lukacs) hope was that 'workers' are the only

> ones

> > who do not misrecognise the socio-economic for

> > what it is: a system of symbolic violence in

> which

> > privilege is transmuted to sociodicy (the

> illusion

> > that one's privilege is warranted, achieved by

> > solipsistic acts of self-justification...)"

>

> Classic! Only on the EDF!!!

>

> BTW thanks for providing a bracketed explanation

> of the difficult to understand big words for us.

> Much appreciated.

I do find this kind of response quite difficult to deal with. On the one hand, of course. Sorry if I sounded patronising (in the past I've had posts like yours because I used words I did not explain. The term 'sociodicy' is exceptionally useful: but few people know it, even in the university). On the other, it was in response to a specific question: why the strange use of 'worker' by Corbyn. I am really not sure that one can answer this question without recourse to the self-referential esoteric terms of Marxism because that is the worldview in which he uses it.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

"The UK does well on measures of income, wealth, security and environment, less well on work-life balance, education, skills, and housing. There is a considerable gap between the richest and poorest ? in the UK the top 20% of the population earn nearly six times as much as the bottom 20%."

But, you know, money's not everything, so they might be really happy!

[titch juicy]

robbin Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> jaywalker Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> >

> > "...in Bourdieu's language, the original Marx

> (and

> > Lukacs) hope was that 'workers' are the only

> ones

> > who do not misrecognise the socio-economic for

> > what it is: a system of symbolic violence in

> which

> > privilege is transmuted to sociodicy (the

> illusion

> > that one's privilege is warranted, achieved by

> > solipsistic acts of self-justification...)"

>

> Classic! Only on the EDF!!!

>

> BTW thanks for providing a bracketed explanation

> of the difficult to understand big words for us.

> Much appreciated.

I didn't know what sociodicy meant so was grateful for the explanation.

[JohnL]

This is a sort of inheritance tax

?Everyone will be confident that they can pass on ?100,000 to their children and grandchildren."

?It is not a tax. We are saying that the assets that you build up over your lifetime should be used to pay for your own care costs.?

Hunt

The Boomers will spend and re-mortgage I'd think :)

[JohnL]

Daily Mail readers are furious :)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4516532/May-defer-care-bills-death.html

(The anger as they've just realised the house will be included - and taken when the pensioner dies - and that home care has been included)

[red devil]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The Boomers will spend and re-mortgage I'd think

> :)

Some of them have already been doing that, leading to the acronym SKINT, spending kids inheritance...

[Jules-and-Boo]

do you get the feeling that they didn't think this through?

[JohnL]

Manifesto launch going on now - "through Brexit and beyond" she says

She's moving a lot of government out of London apparently (will the house of commons go I wonder)

[red devil]

Red Theresa/Leftie May anyone?

I thought this piece in the Spectator highlighted in the Guardian's live feed made a good point. Brexit means Brexit suck it up and see...

Mrs May is the most left-wing leader the Tories have had in perhaps 40 years. In normal times, this would set her at odds with the MPs on the right ? the ones Sir John Major once referred to as the ?bastards?, for whom regicide is a form of relaxation. But not now. The Thatcherite MPs are those who are most committed to Brexit; having regarded the whole idea of leaving the EU as a dirty fantasy, they still cannot quite believe that it is coming true. For them, the national question ? leaving the European Union and crushing the Scottish Nationalists ? matters more than gas bills.

As one senior Tory puts it: ?As a Conservative I have three priorities: the nation, security, and a low-tax economy. David Cameron gave me none of those three ? Theresa May gives me two. So I?ll bank those two and back her, and worry about the rest later.? There is also a belief that Conservatism?s strength lies in being opportunistic, and ideologically flexible. So if the public want some pick-and-mix, a bit of banker-bashing with their Brexit, then Tories will cheer Mrs May as she delivers it ...

For those Conservatives who think that the party?s role is to keep the bad guys out of power, things could not be going better. ?If an energy price cap is the price we pay for destroying Labour in its heartlands, then I?ll pay it ten times over,? says one MP. It?s an example of the strategic shamelessness which many Tories see as the party?s election-winning secret. When Lord Salisbury was prime minister, he said that Gladstone?s existence was the Conservative party?s greatest source of strength. Now it?s Jeremy Corbyn who is the great Tory unifier.

So the Conservatives are mutating from being the party of low taxation to the party of Brexit. They may regain their love of free enterprise when Britain has left the EU. Either way, it seems likely that in ten years? time there will still be a clear Tory majority. And for now that seems to be all that matters.

[JohnL]

"Doesn't matter if you're man or woman, gay or straight, black or white all that matters is your talent"

All you untalented people - I care about you anyway.

[JohnL]

She is very interventionist

A blue Milliband

[JohnL]

And just called a "Red Tory" in her press conference.

Will she deny it ? No she did not !!!

[????]

Big recovery for Labour according to today's polls - Tories stay as is but LD support collapsing and going to Labour. Looks like we are moving to the old days when the big two got the lion's share of the vote - (excluding Scotland/NI)

[titch juicy]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Big recovery for Labour according to today's polls

> - Tories stay as is but LD support collapsing and

> going to Labour. Looks like we are moving to the

> old days when the big two got the lion's share of

> the vote - (excluding Scotland/NI)

The polls i'm looking at have Labour no higher than recently. In fact it looks like the Tory lead is extending.

Cons 47.1

Lab 30.1

LD 8.7

https://britainelects.com/

[JohnL]

titch juicy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ???? Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Big recovery for Labour according to today's

> polls

> > - Tories stay as is but LD support collapsing

> and

> > going to Labour. Looks like we are moving to

> the

> > old days when the big two got the lion's share

> of

> > the vote - (excluding Scotland/NI)

>

>

> The polls i'm looking at have Labour no higher

> than recently. In fact it looks like the Tory lead

> is extending.

>

> Cons 47.1

> Lab 30.1

> LD 8.7

>

> https://britainelects.com/

Thats the poll of polls

The latest (Ipsos Mori) is 49 to 34 (15 lead but other parties collapsing)

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/uk-general-election-poll-jeremy-corbyns-labour-makes-major-eight-point-gain-on-tories-after-a3542256.html

Edit: now if the polls were slightly wrong in Tories favour - this could go close.

[titch juicy]

I guess a poll early next week after the Lib Dem and Conservative manifestos have been absorbed, will be more accurate.

[titch juicy]

It looks like the Tories have confirmed that Leveson part Two won't go ahead, if the BBC's live election feed is to be believed. At the request of the Mail, Times and Express.

I wonder where the real power lies?

Paul Dacre is a stain on this country.

[Jules-and-Boo]

That says a lot!

[JohnL]

titch juicy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It looks like the Tories have confirmed that

> Leveson part Two won't go ahead, if the BBC's live

> election feed is to be believed. At the request of

> the Mail, Times and Express.

>

> I wonder where the real power lies?

>

> Paul Dacre is a stain on this country.

Mentioned by Sky -- with a little smugness I thought

[jaywalker]

Looks like the May control-freakery is finally getting the better of her. The Tory manifesto is - how to put this delicately - a little off kilter.

I fear her isolationism from her own supporters will destroy her. She cannot listen to good ideas or abandon her id?e fixe in the face of overwhelming argument to the contrary - for example the immigration target to continue to include overseas students (what?!! - the great majority of the Cabinet tried to get her to abandon this stupidity). She seems unconsciously to have assumed the divine right of her heroine (Elizabeth I) - I very much doubt she would get a majority of Tory MPs voting for much of this nonsense if they were exercising their conscience.

Perhaps intending Tory voters could explain which parts of the manifesto they find attractive and why?

[Earl Aelfheah]

Making it more difficult to recruit international students is completely dumb and self defeating. The only possible reason I can see for it is xenophobia. I would love to hear why others think it could be a good idea though.

[red devil]

If there isn't a meme doing the rounds for Pink May, there should be...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2017/05/18/TELEMMGLPICT000129051381-small_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqsVM7UHbcrdI4c2ZHgN_rRmjstc_M8XP7cWnp7UkkW9g.jpeg

[miga]

rahrahrah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The only possible reason I can see for it is

> xenophobia.

I think the immigration stance is pragmatic in the sense that it's built not to lose votes from some already established demographics, but to harness the power of xenophobia. He got his stats a bit muddled up, but Osborne's editorial the other day was excellent on this.

[Jeremy]

I struggle to see how Theresa May is particularly "left wing" even by Tory standards, but happy to be educated. In some ways she seems to have taken the party to the right with her brand of neo-nationalism.

A real shame that the Lib Dems aren't making more of an inroad.. the main two parties have both abandoned the centre ground, and along with Brexit (hugely unpopular with half of the country), this should be their best chance since the party's inception. Poor leader.