Rabbit fur coat discussion.

[Mick Mac]

You don't shear a rabbit, you shoot it.

Ann another thing.....

[Pearson]

zeban Wrote:

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> I care very much about animal rights but I don't

> see any problem with wearing VINTAGE fur. I'd

> never buy NEW fur,

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What's the difference between new fur and vintage?

Why would you think that an older fur is better than a newer fur?

Animal is dead in both cases, so what differences does it make

apart from possibly some weird emotional attachment you might have

because it was a long time ago?

Not picking on you Zeban, cause i do get where you're coming from.

I just don't get this new fur v old fur. All dead as far as i can see.

[RosieH]

sheepskin boots are very practical in the winter

You don't shear a rabbit, you shoot it.

Damn Mick, those are some cruel-ass shears you're using on your sheep.

[Mick Mac]

Oh I see - are uggs made from dead sheep - I thought they were just sheared, in that case Ann is right, I guess.

Ann another thing....

[Pearson]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> You don't shear a rabbit, you shoot it.

>

> Ann another thing.....

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So you're saying the glue sheepskin to Uggs?

We eat Lamb as well as Rabbit. What's your point?

[zeban]

Actually you'll find pretty much all cheese is not made with animal rennet anymore, it's a practice not normally used anymore- look at the back of cheese packets. Unless you go to specialist cheese shop but they'll tell you which ones are suitable for veges. Majority are.

Cheese isn't a bi-product of the meat industry. Although animals who are reared for dairy can also lead pretty much miserable lives hence why organic is what I buy.

@ Pearson: I suppose I feel we've come along way in animal rights over the times, at least trying to outlaw some unecessary practices such as killing animals simply for their fur. And there is more/better legislation these days. Also, I mentioned that people ate rabbits more in the olden days thus a rabbit coat may well have been a bi-product of the meat industry back then, like leather, but rabbits aren't commonly eaten now so if someone made a rabbit fur coat now or a lot of rabbit fur coats, I'd think they killed them simply for their fur. What a huge waste of life.

Maybe my argument doesn't make sense to some, I'd rather no animals were killed for anything- I don't eat meat- but if you're going to kill animals I'd rather there were less killed and those that were killed were utilised fully.

[Mick Mac]

Pearson Wrote:

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> Mick Mac Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > You don't shear a rabbit, you shoot it.

> >

> > Ann another thing.....

> __________________________________________________

> _____

> So you're saying the glue sheepskin to Uggs?

>

> We eat Lamb as well as Rabbit. What's your point?

Actually, I don't have one. I'm going to bed.

Oh no wait, I do have a point. You're a t w a t ....

[Ellwood]

Aren't rabbits used in the pet food industry? I'm sure I've given my cats rabbit meat from tines before now. Again I'd imagine it's a cheap source of meat, and the skins could be a sideline for the manufacturers.

[huncamunca]

We should farm and harvest cats for their fur.

[zeban]

I'm sure there's plenty of left over crappy bits of animals already killed for human consumption that can be used in pet foods. You don't need to kill more animals just for pet food.

[KidKruger]

Sue: " was once verbally abused on a train for wearing a fake leopard fur coat. "

Sue you were getting grief for not being bothered to wear REAL fur coat, for wearing a fake nylon 'impression' of the real thing, goddammit why couldn't you just wear REAL dead animals instead of pretend dead ones ?

At least real dead animals have real dead souls which can float up to real animal heaven and live for real ever after.

[DaveR]

The two sides of the argument:

The fur trade

PETA

I think it's difficult to be completely anti-fur without being hypocritical unless you are equally opposed to any exploitation of animals, whether for food or otherwise. I suspect the reason fur attracts greater attention than other issues is because it's an easy target.

[Sue]

KidKruger Wrote:

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>

> Sue you were getting grief for not being bothered

> to wear REAL fur coat, for wearing a fake nylon

> 'impression' of the real thing, goddammit why

> couldn't you just wear REAL dead animals instead

> of pretend dead ones ?

>

xxxxxxxxx

:))

[Loz]

huncamunca Wrote:

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> We should farm and harvest cats for their fur.

Acoording to the Guardian http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2011/jan/19/whu-didnt-vikings-learn-to-fly?INTCMP=SRCHthe other day, it is now illegal to sell cat fur in the EU.

Spoilsports.

[huncamunca]

Yeah, I was aware of this.

a logic free directive sadly - apply it to all mammals or fuck off.Thought Im sure cat owners will come up up with some deluded old toss about why cats ( and dogs ) should be treated differently ( and dont start that diversionary old tactic of drawing an arbitary line between pets and foodstock animals - it merely affirms the imbilicility implicit in your thought processes )

Still , its OK if tiddles get his ( intensively farmed ) rabbit choice chunks for supper.I am sure all those bunnies were more than happy to live a short life of shit in order to make someones pampererd,wretched, pet(lite) momentarily happy.

[ianr]

> a logic free directive sadly - apply it to all mammals or @#$%& off.

The preamble to the regulation begins: "(1) In the perception of EU citizens, cats and dogs are considered to be pet animals and therefore it is not acceptable to use their fur or products containing such fur."

[huncamunca]

S'correct..but still based on emotion & lacking in logic.

Its not tolerable for tiddles to be considered for lunch, but its OK for pretty much anything else to be chewed down ( as long as we dont see it or have to think about the animal being slaughtered)

As I said, should be draw a boundary between what you consider a pet & then allow other mammals to be killed in a brutal manner, it shows a distinct lack of rational thought.

Cat lovers dont usually have much sense, it has to be said - just look at the lost cat threads that seem to pop up all day long on here.

innit bludz

but thats it, no more discussions on this subject. HcMca is out

[mockney piers]

Aaah, snorky. Acerbic you may be, but we seem to agree about a surprising amount of stuff.

In this you are absolutely spot on.

Incidentally, I've had horse pizza in the Tyrol. Delicious.

House cat is a bit scrawny. Tiger, now that would be more filling, but I imagine rather tough.

[Jeremy]

Absolutely nothing wrong with eating horse.

I'm sure I remember a news story about a restaurant in China selling "tiger meat" at sky-high prices. They were discovered to have been selling donkey meat laced with tiger urine. Yum yum.

[Loz]

I'd be happy to eat any vegetarian animal. Might baulk at the carnivorous though - it's not supposed to be terribly good for you.

If a steak restaurant cook and serve steak and a fish restaurant cook and serve fish, why don't vegetarian restaurants cook and serve vegetarians?

[mockney piers]

Pigs will eat anything frankly. In fact isn't dog supposed to be a bit like pork? In fact isn't human supposed to be a bit like pork?

I'm teasing, I'll eat anything we can farm or cull for good reason, and I draw another line for canibalism....though to be safe you probably wouldn't want to get stuck on an Andean mountain or the raft of medusa with me ;-) I also won't touch endangered stuff (unless we're farming it, at which point it's probably not that endangered).

In fact, I bet you if people stopped moralising, and we farmed tigers for their skin, that their days of being numbered would be numbered.

[zeban]

Hmmm the last few posts have typically gone anti-vegetarian, and quite frankly ridiculous. The argument was actually about fur and the fur industry. Why can't people ever have a grown up conversation about issues such as these without referring to the same childish responses and stupid ideas.. Mockney Piers last sentence a good example- you want to breed endangered animals just so you can skin them??? A joke or not that's seriously sick.

[RosieH]

zeban the two questions are linked. If someone's prepared to eat an animal, why shouldn't they wear it? If someone's prepared to eat a certain animal, why shouldn't they eat another? And if someone's prepared to wear a certain animal, why shouldn't they wear another.

There are layers upon layers of hypocrisy in the vegetarian question.

In your response to the cheese question, you say you buy organic, but you make no mention of the male calves that are slaughtered as a bi-product of the dairy industry. Presumably you're ok with that, provided the cheese itself doesn't contain stomach?

[SeanMacGabhann]

Vegetarianism will inevitably be included in any grown up discussion about fur, for the simple reason that many many meat eaters are against anti-fur and that's a position that is shaky at best - so people are questioning that stance which is entirely valid.

Mockney's post about breeding tigers might be flippant but it's not sick - he doesn't WANT to do anything he is merely pointing out that many animals owe their survival to being bred for food or fur. Is that sick? Is extinction better than survival for profit? Maybe it is maybe it isn't but it's a valid thought and not sick

[Pearson]

@ Zeban,

I think that was a very serious point made by Mockney about farming endangered animals.

Certainly embracing and accepting the situation rather than fighting a loosing battle

would seem to be a way forward.

What would you, as someone who would like animals protected rather have: them farmed,

or poached to extinction?