Routines - all or nothing??

[reren]

I'm wondering if any experienced parents have any advise on the following dilemma:my 3 month old has fallen into a very good pattern of sleeping from about 11pm til 8:30/9 in the morning - until recently he would stay up with us all evening - always in good spirits - sometimes cluster feeding for much of the evening. In the last week or so he's become much more active during the day and naps for shorter periods. Unsurprisingly he is more tired and more crotchety in the evening. So we decided to try and implement an earlier bedtime - problem is that if we put him down around 7ish he sleeps but only for 45 mins and then wakes up crying quite hard, only consolable with lots of feeding..he then falls asleep around 10:30 and stays asleep until the usual 8:30ish. So my question is - should we just count our blessings he sleeps at night or are we storing up trouble for future? Im really loathe to try any kind of controlled crying when hes sleeping well at night...im wondering if i might have to implement more of a routine during the day / control nap times more - but im enjoying the freedom of not having a routine. (tho i suspect theres no having your cake and eating it!)

Is it too much to ask that a baby this age sleeps all evening and all night anyway? We're happy for now to have him awake in the evenings but not sure how to spot if he's overtired?? Maybe he needs to sleep in the evening?

[The Nappy Lady]

I think as long as you're happy I'd just 'go with the flow' for a bit longer...it sounds like he is moving towards going to bed at 7ish for the night, just not quite there yet.

My first was doing more or less 7-7 by 3 months old, sometimes waking in the nigth but mostly going through...my 2nd - ha! Took a lot longer to go all night (15 months and then only because we enforced it). I think I was also more laid back about getting her into a routine, though as best I can recall probably did start to go to bed at 7/8pm ish from around the 3 month mark.

Are you doing a 'bedtime routine' yet? I think it really helps them if you implement some really key signals, we did;

20 mins nappy off time in warm room on a towel (bathroom for us whilst running the bath so hot and a bit steamy) - helps to wear them out having a good kick about. Then a busy bath time. Then cuddles and a feed in a dimly lit room with a special CD playing 'sound asleep' music that is supposed to send baby off to sleep.

I really think most tiny babies take a while to settle into a true routine and personally don't see much point in trying to enforce it too soon unless you are unhappy to go with the flow. Those baby days go so fast, I liked to relax and make the most of them whilst I could!

Good luck with it all!

[radnrach]

My baby is now 5 months, and when he was 4 months we were in the same position as you. He was staying up with us (till around 11pm, sometimes later), cluster feeding, etc. I loved having him with us in the evenings. However, he started getting quite cranky which made me think he just wasn't getting enough sleep. At this time, we didn't have a nighttime routine or anything, he just fell asleep when feeding late at night.

When he was 4 months, we decided to start the bedtime routine, put him down earlier and see how it went. Bedtime routine was: quiet playtime in the nursery on a mat with few toys, bath (with night time baby bath), change into jammies, read a book (he loves this bit already!) and then lullabies, feed = moses basket. We started by putting him down at 9, and it's gotten progressively earlier to now he is almost always asleep by 7:30pm. I didn't actually want him to go to bed that early, but it seems to be the time he naturally wants to go to bed. He now wakes up at 7:30 - 8am whereas he used to wake up 9-9:30am, but he's so much happier generally.

So - I guess all babies are different, and you can find what works for you and babe, but we found that the bed time routine and earlier bedtime really have helped. Perhaps you need to start later (9) and then work your way earlier, as they're so used to going to bed late their body isn't ready to suddenly go down at 7?

Edited to add a couple of things:

I have read that signs of a baby being over-tired can be misconstrued. Once they've gone through the tired stage, they can become overexcited, hyper almost! So sometimes when they're being excitable late at night, it's because they're very very tired. Another thing: When we take him out in the evenings now, he still wants to crash at 7:30pm, so if we're out later he gets pretty upset at around that time. But once he's fallen asleep while we're out, he's out for the night, and we can take him in the pram almost anywhere. hope this makes sense and helps somewhat!

[sillywoman]

reren could you try a gradual approach to changing his bedtime, e.g. putting him to bed at 10pm for a week, then 9.30pm and so on, at whatever pace works for him, until you achieve the nadir of a 7pm bedtime? Also it's worth bearing in mind that at this age lots of babies who do have an earlier bedtime will still need a dream -feed at about 10/11pm to get them through the night. TBH it sounds like you're doing brilliantly already :))

[prm]

Reren I don't know the right answer but my 4.5 month old had a very similar pattern to what you are describing until a few weeks ago. For a while we let her be, as it worked fine for us, but I thought that at some point we would have to teach her that little girls don't stay up until 11pm, so we better start sooner rather than later!

So when she started waking about 45min after the bath & last feed, instead of bringing her downstairs as usual I tried really hard to get her back to sleep (admittedly I had not been trying very hard previously as I was exhausted in the evenings). It took some effort for the first week or so, as she would sometimes wake several times, but we would persevere. I use a slightly modified version of the Baby Whisperer's "pat & sush" technique & lately I have been switching the lights off completely in the room once she is asleep (which has been the real turning point, I guess she probably thinks it's proper nightime and I'm lying in bed next to her, and does not wake up as easily).

The downside is that she no longer sleeps until 8am or so, she has been waking up around 6ish since, but for us it's worth it as I didn't realise how much I needed that baby-free time in the evening!

By the way we also do a dream feed at 11 and that was also difficult at times (she would not latch on asleep) but it's worth persevering, it works eventually!

[Fidgetsmum]

The Baby Book by Rachel Waddilove might be helpful. It's what I've used - my daughter was already pretty much there but it helped me to see the signs of overtiredness and establish a more consistent routine. It's a very flexible approach which suited me - I wanted something to help establish a vague routine without making me feel rubbish if I completely messed it up for a few days.