Brexit View

[JohnL]

Gavin Williamson (was chief whip) new Sec of Defence.

As he walked in the press pack were shouting "Do you hold up to the highest standards Mr Williamson"

[robbin]

Whoever would have thought that politicians might not act with 'the highest standards'! I can't see all that many of them acting up to even ordinary standards - no matter which party they are in.

How long is it since the massive expenses (fraud) scandal? Lobbying scandal? Child sex abuse allegations (at least some of which appear to be accepted as true - e.g. Cyril Smith). Anti-Semitism/racism? Keith Vaz (he can have his very own category!). Now this sort of boorish (at best) conduct - behaviour which has hardly been a secret around Westminster and for those in the press. Not to mention the toe curling amount of hypocrisy emanating from them as they make speeches and laws regulating how the rest of us live and behave.

[Alan Medic]

Nigello Wrote:

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> Alan

> You are being too sensitive - as well as

> condescending. Why shouldn't they like it (or even

> hate it) here, or have a good sense of humour (or

> not) any more than anyone else who lives in

> London?

> I am sure these people, who have had the

> wherewithal to learn a foreign language and gain

> and secure employment in a megacity, don't need

> your guilt complex. It's just too sentimentalist.

I don't have a guilt complex Nigello. I didn't vote to tell people to get out of the country. I'm aware that many foreign people here have been made to feel unwelcome. If that's being sentimental, so be it. As for their employment being secure, well it won't be if they have to leave post Brexit.

PS what you describe as condescending is the fact I mentioned how nice they were. They could have been grumpy and rude and the same question would have entered my head.

[JohnL]

Jesus - Some(junior MPs especially) now claiming Gavin Williamson fancied the job and appointed himself. Theresa May too weak to stop him

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/nov/02/theresa-may-seeks-fallon-replacement-as-davidson-calls-for-wider-clearout-of-sexist-politicians-politics-live

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/gavin-williamson-appointed-defence-secretary-to-replace-sir-michael-fallon_uk_59faddf2e4b0415a42098e28

Can't be true. Nick Timothy denies it though so maybe it is

"Gavin Williamson was TM?s campaign manager and has been a brilliant chief whip. The idea he appointed himself is absurd. She rates him."

[red devil]

You couldn't make it up. He was the chief whip. As in, the collector of all the juicy gossip on MPs in order to 'keep them in line'...:)

[robbin]

... and to ensure it was covered up, so far as possible!

[Jenny1]

Alan Medic Wrote:

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> I'm

> aware that many foreign people here have been made

> to feel unwelcome.

I'd echo your views on this Alan Medic. I feel a new sense of discomfort when meeting immigrants to the UK now.

I'm deeply dispirited by the fact that the xenophobic, little-Englander side of our nation has come to the fore since the referendum result. I'm ashamed of this side of the country. These views are based, of course, on complete ignorance of history and economics. So that makes me furious - as this approach impoverishes us all - both literally and culturally. But I'm also all too aware of how hurtful and disruptive this political change has been to the lives of individuals. That's shameful.

[JohnL]

red devil Wrote:

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> You couldn't make it up. He was the chief whip. As

> in, the collector of all the juicy gossip on MPs

> in order to 'keep them in line'...:)

he's been called a slimeball and a few other things by backbench MPs today

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/02/gavin-williamson-profile-an-ambitious-chop-your-head-off-type-of-man

[red devil]

From that Guardian link...

Since then, he has earned her respect for managing difficult parliamentary votes with the slimmest of DUP-backed majorities.

I would've thought it was in May's interest to keep him as Chef Whip if that were the case, as right now that's a far more important role than defence secretary...

[Loz]

Is it just the photos in the papers today, or does Gavin Williamson look a little too much like Alan Partridge?

[red devil]

Now you mention it :)

Slimmer though...

[JohnL]

The list (40 Tory MPs accused of impropriety) being mentioned a lot on Sky News today. Michael Fabricant is on it (he allegedly did something to a male journalist in a taxi) he wonders why the list is Tories only.

As many have said on Twitter - It feels very like a Whips blackmail list :)

[red devil]

Fallon's entry on the list wasn't what I expected...:)

[Blah Blah]

I wouldn't put anything past any of them with the mess the Tory Party is in right now.

I had to baulk at Edwina Currie going at Harriet Harman on This Week and claming there was very little sexual misconduct or harassment in Westminster. Yes that would the same Edwina Currie that had an affair with the married John Major of course.

[JohnL]

Sky seem to be chasing Jeremy Corbyn up a street again whilst he pointedly ignores them.

Deja Vu

[Loz]

Blah Blah Wrote:

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> I had to baulk at Edwina Currie going at Harriet

> Harman on This Week and claming there was very

> little sexual misconduct or harassment in

> Westminster. Yes that would the same Edwina Currie

> that had an affair with the married John Major of

> course.

That is an entire non-sequitur, BB. A consensual relationship (even if one or both are married) is not sexual misconduct or harassment.

I saw that 'This Week' section - neither Currie nor Harman came out of it with much credit.

[red devil]

Apparently there are a few well known, consensual relationships on 'that list'. This should be about how (mainly) men abuse positions of power for sexual gratification, it's something that goes on up and down the country in all walks of life. In a way I feel sorry for the MPs and slebs etc, as they are having to take the flak. Especially when you get hypocritical hand wringing from the press, when you just know that this sort of behaviour goes on in their industry too...

[JohnL]

Sky mentioned this morning that the John Major Back to Basics scandals were mainly affairs - but by Tories who advocated marriage and were thus hypocritical

"In the Major years, ministers lost their jobs once they were revealed to have had extra-marital affairs after a "back to basics" briefing was misinterpreted. In the May years, an affair might get you on a "dossier" of Westminster gossip but wouldn't necessarily cost you your job. At least not yet. (The "dossier", by the way, includes some names that, as far as I know, shouldn't be on it and at least one case of mistaken ministerial identity)."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41847718

[JohnL]

The MPs are still at it - it's like Carry on Camping.

"She was said to have alleged that between five and seven years ago he made a crude remark when she said she had cold hands. ?I know where you can put them to warm them up,? he allegedly said."

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/uproar-as-mps-say-leadsom-warm-your-hands-up-leak-came-from-top-tories-a3675691.html

[Loz]

JohnL Wrote:

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> "She was said to have alleged that between five and seven years ago he made a crude remark when

> she said she had cold hands. ?I know where you can put them to warm them up,? he allegedly said."

That is making a mockery out of the current issue. I've no doubt that there are more than a few in the house of commons that need to be bought to justice and better processes need to be in place, but raising thoroughly underwhelming stuff like this does nothing to help.

[rendelharris]

Loz Wrote:

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> JohnL Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > "She was said to have alleged that between five

> and seven years ago he made a crude remark when

> > she said she had cold hands. ?I know where you

> can put them to warm them up,? he allegedly

> said."

>

> That is making a mockery out of the current issue.

> I've no doubt that there are more than a few in

> the house of commons that need to be bought to

> justice and better processes need to be in place,

> but raising thoroughly underwhelming stuff like

> this does nothing to help.

Entirely agree - could have been addressed by "Grow the f@ck up, Michael" - not like Leadsom was a young researcher being exploited. Utterly demeans the serious problems which clearly exist. Leadsom, who seems a thoroughly unpleasant character (remember the "I'll be a better PM than May because she's childless" statement?), clearly has her own agenda. However one suspects Fallon has more on his record: one can imagine May saying "If you can promise me this is all there is, you can stay. Is this it?" "Umm...well..."

[Blah Blah]

Loz Wrote:

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> That is an entire non-sequitur, BB. A consensual

> relationship (even if one or both are married) is

> not sexual misconduct or harassment.

That may be but it is not a good benchmark from which to have any moral compass on sexual misconduct imo.

[Loz]

Blah Blah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Loz Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > That is an entire non-sequitur, BB. A consensual

> > relationship (even if one or both are married) is

> > not sexual misconduct or harassment.

>

> That may be but it is not a good benchmark from

> which to have any moral compass on sexual

> misconduct imo.

You are travelling a dangerous road when you conflate unconnected issues like that.

In that case, do you think Harman's previous 'issues' with the Paedophile Information Exchange in the 70's means her views on sexual misconduct are dismissable as well?

And who would be left after such glass-house-stone-throwing analysis?

[Blah Blah]

'do you think Harman's previous 'issues' with the Paedophile Information Exchange in the 70's means her views on sexual misconduct are dismissable as well?'

Yes I do. We expect those we elect to have moral standards, and be that extra marital affairs or failure to deal with paedophile's, MPs should be taking a stand on these things - not excusing them.

[red devil]

And who exactly sets these 'moral standards'? This is what Major's 'Back to Basics' tried to impose and look at how that spectacularly backfired on him. As long as it's legal and consensual and doesn't affect their ability as an MP/Minister etc, what an MP gets up to in their private life should be of no concern...