Brexit View

[JohnL]

Even the Fishermen don't want Jacob Rees-Mogg on their boat.

Edit: No it was TFL who blocked him. "Mr Rees-Mogg then fled the protest"

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/jacob-reesmogg-thames-fishing-protest-descends-into-farce-as-tfl-blocks-trawler-from-docking-a3795181.html

[JoeLeg]

Fisheries - one of those groups that thought Leaving would be really simple and would give them back everything. The entire fishing industry voted Leave - and I can understand why - but they never imagined they wouldn?t get exactly what they wanted.

[flocker spotter]

The fishermen really ought to zip it- they singlehandedly decimated the stocks during the 60's and early 70s and appear to be intent on destroying whatever is left. They have resisted all attempts at taking on consensual limits in order to preserve what stocks are left and seem intent on going for a last big send off before we can officially declare the water around the UK biologically dead.

[JoeLeg]

flocker spotter Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The fishermen really ought to zip it- they

> singlehandedly decimated the stocks during the

> 60's and early 70s and appear to be intent on

> destroying whatever is left. They have resisted

> all attempts at taking on consensual limits in

> order to preserve what stocks are left and seem

> intent on going for a last big send off before we

> can officially declare the water around the UK

> biologically dead.

All of this is very true, but UK fishing vessels are hardly unique. It?s the same the world over, particularly Japan. Although it looks as if local cod stocks are recovering slowly, so that?s something, it it?s taken a lot of effort.

Actually that?s not entirely true - Iceland and Norway are good at stock management.

[flocker spotter]

Its the elephant in the room WRT the fishing industry but they were still scrapping with the icelanders over white fish during the early years of our EEC membership as out waters were finished. It was only with the unwelcome imposition of Euro fishing Diktat and management do we have anything left at all. Grimsby and the other white fish ports were moribund & in a terminal death spiral by that time and there was no going back after the EEC wide fisheries policy was introduced - indeed, we only have herring on the menu because of a draconian approach that lasted many years.The non stop tropes about Spanish boats taking our red white ad blue fish are irrational bollocks. Brexit will finish off the UK fishing industry if we are left to manage it ourselves

And yes Iceland and Norway manage their stocks carefully and the fishermen understand why this needs to happen.

ETA because they have not been pandered to by successive governments & have not developed into foot stampy petulant spoilt children

[Blah Blah]

It is not just fishing that could hit the bottom, it's agriculture too. Farming has the benefit of huge EU subsidies and protections from foreign competition. Half our food exports are to the EU. The subsidies alone amount to ?3bn. Are the government going to replace that? There is a growing queue of beneficiaries of current EU funding making a play for that ?11bn in membership fee we are going to save.

[flocker spotter]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43484031

The comments - from both sides after this flabby article - literally suspend belief(hyperbole is the new black on here it seems)- have we really have turned into such a wretched country?

ETA, interestingly there are more fish in the Thames than any point during in the past couple of hundred years. It has been a long process but without EEC/EC/EU water directives forcing our craven hand, it would have take a lot longer and we would far less to show

[JohnL]

Cambridge Analytica have emptied their offices before the information commissioner can get in - that raid was delayed and publicised - so there won't be any smoking guns there.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/22/cambridge-analytica-warrant-high-court-adjourns-hearing-information-commissioner

[Earl Aelfheah]

flocker spotter Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Its the elephant in the room WRT the fishing

> industry but they were still scrapping with the

> icelanders over white fish during the early years

> of our EEC membership as out waters were finished.

> It was only with the unwelcome imposition of Euro

> fishing Diktat and management do we have anything

> left at all. Grimsby and the other white fish

> ports were moribund & in a terminal death spiral

> by that time and there was no going back after the

> EEC wide fisheries policy was introduced -

> indeed, we only have herring on the menu because

> of a draconian approach that lasted many years.The

> non stop tropes about Spanish boats taking our red

> white ad blue fish are irrational bollocks. Brexit

> will finish off the UK fishing industry if we are

> left to manage it ourselves

>

> And yes Iceland and Norway manage their stocks

> carefully and the fishermen understand why this

> needs to happen.

>

> ETA because they have not been pandered to by

> successive governments & have not developed into

> foot stampy petulant spoilt children

This is quite an interesting blog post on the topic: http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2016/06/10/dont-blame-the-eu-for-the-decline-in-some-british-fishing-ports/

[Loz]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Cambridge Analytica have emptied their offices before the information commissioner can get in -

> that raid was delayed and publicised - so there won't be any smoking guns there.

>

> https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/22/cambridge-analytica-warrant-high-court-adjourns-hearing-information-commissioner

Trump bad, Obama good??

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/17/obama-digital-data-machine-facebook-election

"Consciously or otherwise, the individual volunteer will be injecting all the information they store publicly on their Facebook page ? home location, date of birth, interests and, crucially, network of friends ? directly into the central Obama database."

[JohnL]

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> JohnL Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Cambridge Analytica have emptied their offices

> before the information commissioner can get in -

> > that raid was delayed and publicised - so there

> won't be any smoking guns there.

> >

> >

> https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/22/ca

> mbridge-analytica-warrant-high-court-adjourns-hear

> ing-information-commissioner

>

>

> Trump bad, Obama good??

>

> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/17/obam

> a-digital-data-machine-facebook-election

>

> "Consciously or otherwise, the individual

> volunteer will be injecting all the information

> they store publicly on their Facebook page ? home

> location, date of birth, interests and, crucially,

> network of friends ? directly into the central

> Obama database."

LOL, but Obama's nice he can come on my Facebook page anytime. If I see Trump there I'll kick him :)

[flocker spotter]

rahrahrah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> flocker spotter Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Its the elephant in the room WRT the fishing

> > industry but they were still scrapping with the

> > icelanders over white fish during the early

> years

> > of our EEC membership as out waters were

> finished.

> > It was only with the unwelcome imposition of

> Euro

> > fishing Diktat and management do we have

> anything

> > left at all. Grimsby and the other white fish

> > ports were moribund & in a terminal death

> spiral

> > by that time and there was no going back after

> the

> > EEC wide fisheries policy was introduced -

> > indeed, we only have herring on the menu

> because

> > of a draconian approach that lasted many

> years.The

> > non stop tropes about Spanish boats taking our

> red

> > white ad blue fish are irrational bollocks.

> Brexit

> > will finish off the UK fishing industry if we

> are

> > left to manage it ourselves

> >

> > And yes Iceland and Norway manage their stocks

> > carefully and the fishermen understand why this

> > needs to happen.

> >

> > ETA because they have not been pandered to by

> > successive governments & have not developed

> into

> > foot stampy petulant spoilt children

>

> This is quite an interesting blog post on the

> topic:

> http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2016/06/10/dont-blam

> e-the-eu-for-the-decline-in-some-british-fishing-p

> orts/

that's a pretty fair summation of the issues. thanks

[Earl Aelfheah]

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> JohnL Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Cambridge Analytica have emptied their offices

> before the information commissioner can get in -

> > that raid was delayed and publicised - so there

> won't be any smoking guns there.

> >

> >

> https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/22/ca

> mbridge-analytica-warrant-high-court-adjourns-hear

> ing-information-commissioner

>

>

> Trump bad, Obama good??

>

> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/17/obam

> a-digital-data-machine-facebook-election

>

> "Consciously or otherwise, the individual

> volunteer will be injecting all the information

> they store publicly on their Facebook page ? home

> location, date of birth, interests and, crucially,

> network of friends ? directly into the central

> Obama database."

There are some differences: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/mar/22/meghan-mccain/comparing-facebook-data-use-obama-cambridge-analyt/

[Loz]

rahrahrah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> There are some differences:

> http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/mar/22/meghan-mccain/comparing-facebook-data-use-obama-cambridge-analyt/

Indeed there are. As the article points out, The Obama campaign was upfront with the Facebook users who submitted their data, where CA were not, so the Obama campaign is very much in the clear there.

But, both campaigns were equally guilty of accessing the friends information without their permission, adding them to a database and contacting them. That is a pretty crucial parallel.

[JohnL]

Cambridge Analyica are just much creepier

The boasting got to me https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/cambridge-analytica-suspends-ceo-alexander-nix-after-he-was-secretly-filmed-boasting-of-dirty-tricks-a3794936.html

Why Ukrainian ?

[JohnL]

This still rolls on and on (it's like background noise now) - I don't know if it's real or dirty tricks anymore. I guess the probability is both sides cheated.

Vote Leave had some money but had spent their entire allowance so they gave it to Be Leave (the youth group), But the money was given straight to AIQ in Canada. Vote Leave supposedly controlled how the money was spent.

An activist has whistle blown to the Guardian (although he still believes in Leave) about the figures and a prominent member of Vote Leave hints it's because a relationship between them ended so outing him (the guy is now the PMs political secretary). The outed guy has relations in Pakistan who are now at risk it is claimed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43527924

[flocker spotter]

Its kinda irrelvant now, as much as it may irk some - we do seem to have a politcal class who are obstinate in their need to hold onto power. Its not just the present government either, it is acrosss the board -they are all thick skinned enough to refuse to *do the right thing* when their actions are highlighted. What would have got you the boot a decade ot two ago is now just a minor irritation that should not be publicly countered and will be invariably be forgotten about by next week.

And we wonder so many of the UK population voted for brexit, when it is plain to see that for many it was their one chance, their once in an lifetime opportunity to vent their utter frustration at a class,that do not seem to care about the electorate.I am still of the opinion that the the EU was a convenient fall guy ( rightly or wrongly ) for a disposessed population. Brexit isnt the end of this, its just the beginning

[Seabag]

I read this over the weekend in The Wall Street Journal

It?s interesting to see a view from across the pond.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-u-k-is-doingjust-fine-thanks-1521819089

[Sephiroth]

Not sure an article by hardcore brexiteer Fraser Nelson (Telegraph/Spectator), in a Murdoch paper constitutes "a view from across the pond"

[JohnL]

Could Theresa May be preparing to jettison Stephen Parkinson (Political Advisor). She's given him the dreaded vote of confidence.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/26/brexit-whistleblower-shahmir-sanni-no-10-official-outed-me-to-distract-from-claims

[Seabag]

Sephiroth Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Not sure an article by hardcore brexiteer Fraser

> Nelson (Telegraph/Spectator), in a Murdoch paper

> constitutes "a view from across the pond"

Sorry, should have added ?across the pond? tongue in cheek quotation marks here

[JohnL]

Wow - When Grant Shapps thinks you're arrogant :)

"Last year, Shapps gave his recollection of that encounter, writing in the Sun that he was ?shocked by their sheer arrogance?. He wrote: ?At the end of the stormiest meeting I held, they informed me: ?You will live to regret your decision, chairman?.?"

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/26/fiery-self-important-the-no-10-adviser-at-centre-of-outing-claim

[JohnL]

Chris Wylie (the pink haired guy) in front of the House of Commons select committee

Obviously knows a bit about Cambridge Analytica but comes across as a bit of a conspiracy nut mentioning how his predescessor died in mysterious circumstances. Links AIQ and Cambridge Analytica and adds in some other "shady" companies "Black Cube" and " ASI Data Science" Mentions a total disregard for the law. Wylie says the DUP, Vote Leave, BeLeave and Veterans for Britain all used AIQ.

Wow - think the committee will probably dismiss him as a nutcase to be honest due to the way he presents himself. If I met him in the pub I would too I'm afraid :)

[JohnL]

Here's the "my predecessor died" story. If he told me that in the pub I'd laugh and buy another round but not believe a word of it. :)

http://uk.businessinsider.com/cambridge-analytica-whistleblower-christopher-wylie-illegal-trump-brexit-2018-3

[Earl Aelfheah]

Oh dear, he doesn't sound very credible.