Brexit View

[JohnL]

red devil Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> JohnL Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > Lets see what happens with Catalonia - its very

> > complex - and I get the feeling Trump is going

> to

> > do something incredibly stupid soon (can't find

> > the old Trump thread) but he's said "this is

> the

> > calm before the storm" - some calm - maybe all

> > this is going to be overshadowed :(.

>

> Near the top of page 3...you posted the last

> comment :)

> Forget about Trump and his utterances (probably

> meant to be overheard) and get yourself down the

> pub and watch Wales with a pint in your hand...

We actually won too :)

I know it's the Canary (the left's Westmonster) but that look on Theresa's face on Chris Williamsons blog. Like an unhappy dog.

https://www.thecanary.co/uk/2017/10/06/labour-mps-two-minute-takedown-mays-speech-best-thing-youll-watch-week-video/

[red devil]

When I saw that the Gruniard had an article written by arch-Breixteer Bernard Jenkin, I thought why are they giving him such 'airtime'.

Then I read the article. And now I know why.

Welcome to the deluded, deranged world of the Brexiteer, where bluebirds hang out Snow White's washing and there's a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow...soon to be a crock of shit

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/08/brexit-treasury-eu-bernard-jenkin

[Loz]

"Only a fraction of the UK economy is dependent upon EU membership. The majority is either domestic or non-EU export"

Yep, it is indeed a fraction. As far as the 'exports' part goes, the fraction is about one-half.

[red devil]

There's so much in that article that beggars belief. He actually thinks the EU is at fault for not starting talks BEFORE A50 was invoked. WTF!..:)

[JohnL]

red devil Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> There's so much in that article that beggars

> belief. He actually thinks the EU is at fault for

> not starting talks BEFORE A50 was invoked.

> WTF!..:)

Why do they assume EU's interest aligns with ours - we are beginning

to blame them for looking after their own interests.

[red devil]

In the Commons, the Conservative MP Michael Fabricant says Labour could not negotiate their way out of a paper bag. A Labour MP - it sounded very like Chris Bryant - shouted that they would not have got into the paper bag in the first place....Touch?! :)

[JohnL]

So Theresa May's audit on diversity appears to have landed.

One thing that could be good about her tenure, hope she follows through.

[Loz]

A more cynical person may suspect it is a bit of an "oh, look - a squirrel" piece of news.

[JohnL]

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> A more cynical person may suspect it is a bit of

> an "oh, look - a squirrel" piece of news.

Yes - Sky keep prefacing every comment about her now with "If she's still there"

[JohnL]

So taking remain out of the equation, what mistakes have been made since the referendum last June. I'd say quite a few (looking at it from the interests of the British side), the timing of article 50, the agreement of the sequencing (Davis said he'd fight this then rolled over on the first day), preparation (civil service needed more resources), negotiating skills.

There will probably be an inquest into how this was managed at some point IMHO and the government can't just say "we were following the will of the people" - a lot of decisions other than "leave" have been made.

[red devil]

Plenty of mistakes, but the biggest surely has to be the rush to trigger A50, when clearly there was no Gov plan in place about what they thought Brexit entailed. Everything else has snowballed from that...

[Loz]

I think all mistakes can be neatly summed up as "lack of any sort of a coherent plan". The whole thing is a complete shambles. The negotiators have gone in with the same foolish thinking that was voiced by some around this forum, saying, "ahh the EU will coming begging to us once they realise that the German car industry/French wine industry/etc will lose out".

Now, one third of the way in and we still have no plan, no strategy and, worst of all, no idea. Business is now getting jittery. It's not looking good.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Hit the nail on the head Loz.

It's all fairly grim.

[Loz]

And now Phillip Hammond (who is usually a relatively sane voice in the government) is saying he's putting aside money for a 'no deal'.

Erm - money is useful, but we are going to need a shed load of infrastructure in place ON Brexit day. Otherwise we will have no ability to process customs and immigration at our borders. This will take at least a year (and that's being generous) to put into place.

And that's just the start of it. Otherwise, the much-feared cliff edge becomes much steeper and much more deeper.

[red devil]

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> And now Phillip Hammond (who is usually a

> relatively sane voice in the government) is saying

> he's putting aside money for a 'no deal'.

This is yet another division within the Tory party... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41585428

[JohnL]

PMQs was back to it's normal standard today.

Corbyn to May: You're on another planet, May to Corbyn: You're on Planet Venezuela. May even threw her notes over the table in annoyance when someone mentioned she was hurtling towards a no deal (answered "You couldn't be more wrong"

(instead of you, it was the right honourable member but that's a laugh)

[Blah Blah]

Loz is spot on. Leave promised all sorts of things that are now being exposed for the folly many said they were at the time. I really do not know how the likes of Gove and Bojo can show their faces.

There was a very telling moment of the venom at the heart of the warring sides of the Tory party a few days ago when Rees Mog asked May a question on a couple of aspects of the negotiations and reliance on the ECJ in parliament. You could see the simmering hatred of her reply in his face and demeanor.

Until the Tories can find some consensus, we have no chance of any deal.

As for putting money aside for no deal, money for what exactly? To compensate business and those that lose their jobs? To offset inflation? To bribe offshore investors to use the UK as a tax haven? I thought we had no money - that's what the Tories have been telling us for 7 years now.

[JohnL]

Why has Liz Truss switched to leave citing "no economic damage" just when economic damage looks on the near horizon

Internal Tory politics I guess.

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/uk-news/liz-truss-would-vote-leave-13747046

[JohnL]

and also when will David Davis publish these impact assessments - surely if they were positive he'd be crowing about them

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/10/mps-urge-david-davis-to-publish-brexit-impact-assessments

[Loz]

Blah Blah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> As for putting money aside for no deal, money for what exactly?

Well, here's your starter for 10 (billion)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41271028

[JohnL]

Interesting comment by the Speaker

"Commons Speaker John Bercow has said that MPs are not obliged to vote in line with the EU referendum vote.

Speaking to the Hansard Society, Bercow said it was an ?opinion, rather than a constitutional fact? that MPs were obliged to vote through Brexit because of the referendum result."

I thought there was no remain option in any vote, just deal or no deal. Does he know something then ?

[Alan Medic]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/12/jeremy-corbyn-says-would-vote-remain-second-eu-referendum

JC says he voted remain and would do so again. Do you believe that? I'm not so sure.

[JohnL]

to be fair if he lied it's a good one

(comments underneath: I bet you secretly voted leave)

[Blah Blah]

Thanks for that article Loz. It seems to make perfect sense. The longer all of this nonsense goes on though, the more likely it is that we won't be leaving the Single Market or Customs Union. But as one journalist interviewing Iain Duncan Smith pointed out, that with every twist and turn of this game government are playing, the pound keeps falling and the economy tanks just a little more.

[JoeLeg]

Or possibly the hardcore fringe of the Tories that controls May know all that, and would prefer the hardest Brexit possible to anything other than a perfect deal.

A cliff edge Brexit is still Brexit, so they still get what they want.

Personally I think it's all posturing for the medi, and the real talks are going on very secretly far away from prying eyes. We'll get what we're given, and will be told it's a good deal.